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GAZA, JERUSALEM, AND MEF

Reader comment on item: "Today Gaza, Tomorrow Jerusalem"

Submitted by Anatoly Tsaliovich (United States), Aug 12, 2005 at 21:06

Like always, Mr. Pipes hit the nail in the head: his analysis is clear cut, to the point, and based on facts, while close to a hundred comments it elicited by and large support his conclusions.

So, what is there to discuss further? Before answering, I would like to remark on several related issues:

1. Does Israel need Gaza, per se? Permit me to respond in capital letters: NO!!! But only in certain context. There is nothing in Gaza to attract those universally demonized Jewish ogres, the settlers: no fertile soil, no oil, no diamonds, no Metropolitan Opera or Bolshoi Ballet. On the other hand, are the 8000 "Jewish right wing fanatics" worth the loss of Israeli soldier's blood?? Moreover, there are many powerful voices in Europe, USA, from the Arab side, even within the Jewish community, linking the Israeli "occupation" of Gaza to the terror acts in New York, London, Madrid, Bali, even in Muslim countries (?! - as little sense it makes). Sure, let's kick them out of these holy (or otherwise) sands and there will be eternal Peace on Earth – the sooner the better!

2. But then, should Israel leave Gaza? While the accurate answer is very much impossible now, my personal "gut's feeling" concurs with Mr. Pipes' conclusion: PROBABLY, NOT!!!. Or at least not the way it is being presently done.
First, as far as Israel security is concerned, giving Gaza away will bring all the terrorist spoils closer to the heart of this country. When is it you looked at the map of Israel the last time?

Second, "the sweet democratic West" together with "the sweet democratic and un-democratic East" should think what kind of WRONG signals they want to send to the truly bloodthirsty ogres of our time, whose only goal is to destroy the State of Israel: push stronger, kill more and you will get what you want! Unfortunately, given today's political climate in the world, they may be right. We see many allegedly decent people who try to "pay off" the bandits. They gladly resurrect the spirit of Mr. Chamberlain, but easily forget the millions of people who died thanks to this character's idiotism, ignorance, and misunderstanding of History.

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen, refined intelligent democrats of the civilized world wearing white gloves! The old news is waiting to hit you: those who sow the wind reap the storm! History does not forgive short sight and narrow mind. Haven't you learnt anything from Herr Hitler's experience? You cannot appease evil and should not give it a chance (even when paying the Evil with Jewish blood), or else ... . Indeed, your storm is already at your own doorsteps. You let the terrorist anti-Semitic genie out of the bottle and now it fights not only the Jews in Israel and elsewhere, but turns too on you, "righteous", in your own nooks and crannies!

Third, I would like specifically to address that "intelligent and justice-loving" Jewish constituency within the latter group. What would you think of the proverbial Jewish "smarts" when Mr. Shapiro embraces the terrorist leader in ...Muqata or when a brainwashed young Jewish degenerate throws a pie in the face of Nathan Scharansky in those old free US of A – the same Scharansky who spent years and years in Russian labor camps defending the freedom and pride of himself and people (not only Jewish, by the way), including that idiot? I think that such morons (for the lack of a better term) could have greatly benefited from "intimate encounters of the first kind" with Gestapo and KGB! The single explanation of such behaviors I see in ignorance, when anti-human and anti-Semitic propaganda can reign free. That's when one could be really ashamed to call him/herself a Jew!

Fourth, let us consider why would those "bad" settlers want to stay in Gaza? Setting aside the highly intellectual anti-Semitic and Islamo-fascist explanations, like "the Jews just have a natural propensity to torture other people, drink Christian (and Muslim) babies' blood, and generally love to occupy foreign lands", we are left with more realistic reasons why the settlers stick to this barren sands amidst a sea of loving and friendly neighbors. (Just how friendly they are, you may see from reading today the story of Noga Cohen, whose three children were crippled when their school bus was the target of a terrorist bomb: ten-year-old Orit lost a foot, 7-year-old Yisrael lost a leg below the knee, and Tehilla lost both legs below the knee. Allah Akhbar!). But guess what? She still sticks to her house in Kfar Darom! "If I give in here today, the Jewish people will be defeated", says Noga Cohen. "The terrorists will win and we will lose. I don't want to give in to terror. How can I give my home to terrorists who will use it against Israel?" Hallelujah!

Finally today we saw the face of an evil perpetrator of human rights in Gaza: her name is NOGA COHEN. But really, does she have less right to that country than the Hamas suicide dispatchers? While the Arab fanatical degenerates sowed death and misery, Noga's family was raising vegetable crops amidst the barren desert. How awful! Indeed, may be instead of demonizing the settlers who put their and their children life on line to work hard, defend their ideals, their rights, and their pride, as well as yours, (just may be!) we should appreciate them? Aren't they the first line of defense of Israel against terrorism, the brave, unselfish, and hard-working zealots – in the better meaning of this word?

3. At long last, we are ready to address the "Gaza-Jerusalem" article question at the start of this message. Let us first try to understand at least certain features and implications in the context of the Gaza pullout. Everything Mr. Pipes says in his article is the Truth and Nothing but the Truth. But it is not the Whole Truth. While he does mention the so-called "Israel critics", I think those "critics" deserve much more "credit" (or curse) for Israel's decision to quit Gaza. Of course, I understand that Mr. Pipes just wanted to zero up on certain issues, but I think that the Gaza problem, at least the way it stands today, should be primarily considered within the worldwide pressure context.

Can't you hear the unholy joint choir of hypocrites, blinded fanatics, thugs, and anti-Semites from around the world seconded by those misled, ignorant, or plain "stupid" (pardon my French) communists, leftists, and extreme liberals, and quite unfortunately supported by many "men in the street" who are just tired of the world-wide bloodshed and misery, but do not know how to handle the grim reality, the unpleasant and unpopular but necessary solutions (go, figure them out). As a consequence, I believe that it is not so much that wisdom abandoned this smart, talented, and experienced politician and warrior Sharon. And perhaps it is not so much the pressure of the enemies, as well. General Sharon fought them (and quite successfully) the whole of his life. But today he is under tremendous pressure from friends and "friends", whether in disguise or honestly deluded, both inside and outside Israel. Also, from those poor souls who got frustrated and tired of years of terrorist misery, from Israeli own Osloists (do you know, that in Russian language the word Oslo is consonant with the word meaning an ASS, which explains the whole concept of the Oslo Accords?); magnified by the relentless Western (even including the American) political pressure and arrogance and outright anti-Semitism.

Now, while I whole-heartedly agree with Mr. Pipes' conclusions, we here are in no position to PRESS on the Israeli public (including the Government and the "settlers and their supporters) to make one or another choice!

4. Then, so what? But may be we can try to influence those people in positions of power, in positions to make decisions and choices, as well as the others who can vote and elect in and out the first ones of their offices? In this respect, I would like to address here two questions:
1.Why the public opinions about Israel are so often so negative? I see many reasons for this, neither of them justifiable or honorable: ignorance, short sightedness, hypocrisy, bigotry, and you name it! Let's add to this laziness and un-involvement of the "silent majority"– here it comes. Or look at the 500 year-old morals of European burgers: they don't want to be bothered, so if it is easier to support the rich and numerous oil producers against the small spec of land on even the largest scale maps, let this "entity" go to hell – it's not our business. And besides, Israel actually never planned nor conducted concerted propaganda efforts to formulate, spell out and propagate her point of view, which gave rich opportunities to her enemies to seize the initiative and sway many would be friends or neutrals into the opposite camp. How come? Sounds like a mystery to me (where is Agatha Christie?)

2. How to fight this?
Paradoxically, it is easier to answer this question with regard to the enemies, although not everybody sees many of them as such (too bad!): FIGHT THEM USING ANY MEANS YOU HAVE, including the army. But can't you enlighten and educate them? Probably, not much can be done in this case. Although in theory even hardened and brainwashed down to the smooth surface of their gray matter idiots and scoundrels can be converted to the path of righteousness, this task belongs rather to the law enforcement. Another thing that law enforcement itself may need education.

Yet, what about those who have a vital stake in this battle, should be interested in fighting the EVIL, but often do not see it that way? Because the ONLY answer to this issue is EDUCATION. And that is where I see the necessity and the main utility of such organizations like The Middle East Forum. But isn't it what is in the MEF Mission statement? Yes, of course, and The MEF deserves the highest praises and kudos for the work it is doing. But it could do more if it extends the great work it is doing as much as possible. In this respect, I see MEF as a kernel of a much larger entity with much broader scope, inclusion, and "footprint" if you will, than it has presently. In my opinion, a newsletter together with associated with it forum (even with a wide enough distribution and very reputable names to its credit) and occasional TV discussions are not enough.

Here is item 1 in the suggested discussion agenda: while the question of what would be enough is open, it requires broad discussions, brainstorming sessions, involving broad expertise and knowledge and all available means, experiences, and professions.
The item 2 will deal with the expansion of the outreach. And by that I mean not only the all important "sophisticated public" (see MEF Mission Statement), but also a much broader inclusion. While it's sure more efficient to educate the policy makers and shakers, but when it comes to elections, all the votes are equal! As an example, I would like to mention the television Fox Channel News. Not that I always agree with them, but they sure challenged the "traditional media" and got themselves quite a large audience, at many intellectual levels. May be, a similar "cultural" offensive on a large scale and broad front could and should be launched in defense of the MEF ideals!

The item 3 – which way to expand. Isn't it time for a more fair analysis than used to be given by Peter Jennings to millions and millions of TV viewers (sorry, they say that we shouldn't speak negatively about the deceased people, but in my eyes that personality really embodied lots of evil promulgated by many in the media.) Yes, there is a need for RESPECTIVE and ADEQUATE TV and radio shows, newspapers, magazines, books, musicals, etc. I am sure, there are enough people around there of talent and good will to fit the bill: radio- and TV personalities, writers, play writes, moviemakers, lawyers and composers, etc. But they must be organized and result-oriented. And given a practical realistic but forward-looking purpose and plan, there might even exist financial sources to back such activities up. How about MEF radio, MEF publishers?

Granted, I expect many more ideas of this kind, some fruitful – some not, all helping to promote the excellent and necessary cause MEF is pursuing on its way to "shape the intellectual climate in which U.S. foreign policy is made by addressing key issues in an accessible way"

Regards, AT
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Reader comments (138) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Israel wants peace nothing else [34 words]Phil GreendJul 6, 2007 22:59103143
The Gaza Pullout from an Israeli's point of view. [354 words]Asaf ApplebaumNov 8, 2005 16:0628005
Israeli-Palestinian views of each other [14 words]jakeFeb 28, 2007 08:2928005
The Israeli Gift-Of-Land-Message to "palestinians" [377 words]LukasSep 16, 2005 03:5425894
Compare Jerusalem Post Column by Carolyn Glick [45 words]Yocheved MenasheSep 15, 2005 16:2425872
Time for the truth! [718 words]LukasSep 15, 2005 04:5025857
RE:Time of truth! [163 words]Emmanuel Etchells-AyreSep 20, 2009 19:1925857
The disengagement from Gaza may not be the right thing to do but [72 words]ArmageddonAug 27, 2005 08:4125143
Today Gaza tomorrow Haifa and Tel-Aviv [121 words]ArmageddonAug 27, 2005 08:2225141
Brief Summary Of Some Recent Headlines [423 words]orange yonasonAug 21, 2005 02:0124933
The Gate of the Western World [39 words]Ben SteinbergAug 19, 2005 20:2024912
Gaza disengagement will tell the world the truth [186 words]Dr. Richard & Arlene RoseAug 19, 2005 14:3624903
Gaza will not bring Peace [137 words]JaladhiAug 19, 2005 11:1024901
To Mr. Walter [85 words]Ibrahim MetwalliAug 18, 2005 16:5124877
Don't Waste Money On Words,.... [75 words]orange yonasonAug 18, 2005 15:4924875
Is Israel really defeated? To Mr. Ibrahim Metwalli [53 words]WalterAug 18, 2005 13:5224873
UN Contribution to Terror- Bruce [76 words]Anatoly TsaliovichAug 17, 2005 23:0224852
To Ellen Horowitz [19 words]orange yonasonAug 16, 2005 23:2024808
To Bhuvan Chaturvedi [132 words]orange yonasonAug 16, 2005 22:3924801
Israel is Clearly defeated [146 words]Ibrahim MetwalliAug 16, 2005 20:3524795
To Ibrahim metwally [208 words]Emmanuel Etchells-AyreSep 20, 2009 18:5624795
UN funding anti-Semitism [19 words]BruceAug 16, 2005 13:1024754
Voilence [25 words]peterJan 2, 2009 08:5224754
Learn from the Indian Experience! [123 words]Bhuvan Chaturvedi, IndiaAug 16, 2005 12:3524751
Now Gaza, soon Jerusalem !!! [55 words]StanAug 16, 2005 10:2324743
Standing Up [584 words]Ellen W. horowitzAug 16, 2005 07:1524736
The beginning of the end [84 words]Arvind MadhavanAug 16, 2005 03:5124726
Sharon not that stupid or naive. [205 words]Anthony DeeAug 16, 2005 01:0724715
History Shmistory [322 words]yonasonAug 15, 2005 03:4724643
the gaza withdrawal [275 words]nick wrightAug 15, 2005 02:1124641
History begins in 1948- Response to Henri [354 words]Walter ManchurAug 14, 2005 18:1724639
AL QAEDA POSITIONED TO MOVE INTO GAZA [1175 words]Jack StillAug 14, 2005 17:4824637
Sharon is the father of the Palestinian Terror Capital in Gaza [47 words]Robert HarrisAug 14, 2005 17:2124636
Response to Gary Frankford [350 words]DvoraAug 14, 2005 14:1224635
Henri Bin Mitty [207 words]henriAug 14, 2005 10:5924633
Gaza Today, Israel tomorrow [273 words]DvoraAug 14, 2005 07:4024630
1Response to Henri: Balfour and his bowler hat [261 words]Walter ManchurAug 14, 2005 02:3024628
It is time for every non-muslims to wake up [182 words]Albert SweAug 14, 2005 02:2224627
THE VIEW FROM GOLDA'S BALCONY HASN'T CHANGED [324 words]Jack StillAug 13, 2005 20:3924623
Why Gaza? Why Iraq? [1662 words]Gary FrankfordAug 13, 2005 12:4124617
Balfour The Cynical ... [428 words]henriAug 13, 2005 10:4524614
This is not the way to tackle Islamism [326 words]Amitabh TripathiAug 13, 2005 09:1524613
God is in control [109 words]Susan WalkerAug 13, 2005 00:5624608
Response to Henricrun [211 words]Walter ManchurAug 12, 2005 23:4324607
GAZA, JERUSALEM, AND MEF [2108 words]Anatoly TsaliovichAug 12, 2005 21:0624606
2JUMP START TO PHASED DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL [361 words]Bruce JosloffAug 12, 2005 20:3624605
I agree/Je suis d'accord [58 words]Robert MooneyAug 12, 2005 10:3624598
Humanity For All [277 words]henricrunAug 12, 2005 05:0124594
Israel's tired supporters... [166 words]AaronAug 12, 2005 03:0524592
To think like a terrorist [395 words]WernerAug 12, 2005 00:3124590
The "Chopped Liver" Majority [292 words]LLRAug 11, 2005 22:0124586
Anti-Terror Contingency [60 words]Ephraim liorAug 11, 2005 20:1324582
Might this be what Sharon is looking for? [147 words]David AroninAug 11, 2005 17:5024580
Gaza withdrawal [58 words]Mort ReichekAug 11, 2005 12:3724576
Whose fault is it? Whose fault will it be? [395 words]Jeremy SlavinAug 11, 2005 11:0424575
Somalia redux? [135 words]David W. LincolnAug 11, 2005 10:2324574
The human and long-term social costs glossed over [224 words]Raphael PintoAug 11, 2005 09:1924572
Response to SteveGW, August 10, 2005 at 23:56 [93 words]WallaceAug 11, 2005 08:1224571
Disengagement plan is beginning of Destruction of State of Israel [255 words]EliAug 11, 2005 07:2724570
The Most Dangerous Critics of Israel [156 words]Martin E. WeinsteinAug 11, 2005 03:4224566
Gaza Crazy [94 words]Arlinda DeAngelisAug 11, 2005 00:1124563
TINA [108 words]SteveGWAug 10, 2005 23:5624562
dont be too alarmed [259 words]garyAug 10, 2005 22:4624561
A Few Comments on the Gaza Disengagement [473 words]Solomon WeiskopAug 10, 2005 22:0624560
Downsizing and Outsourcing [47 words]DanAug 10, 2005 21:2324559
Beware the flames of frustration in the streets of Gaza [144 words]Melvin HassanAug 10, 2005 20:5324558
psychological games [208 words]daveAug 10, 2005 19:2424556
remember Bernadotte? [72 words]Asaf GolanAug 10, 2005 12:4924551
Response to Armand Laferrere [289 words]ElizabethAug 10, 2005 12:4624550
Today Gaza, tomorrow Jerusalem and then the whole of Israel [163 words]Lars NielsenAug 10, 2005 12:2324549
Is Gaza Withdrawal Strategic? [71 words]Jeremy KarekenAug 10, 2005 11:5724548
Gaza, Jerusalem [45 words]J MiddaghAug 10, 2005 11:5124547
Jihad [221 words]BenAug 10, 2005 11:3224545
Unilateral withdrawal a mistake [213 words]wilinskyAug 10, 2005 11:1424543
Removing Settlements Does not End Occupation [216 words]PeterAug 10, 2005 10:4624542
Will the new borders be easier to defend? [130 words]Joe DokesAug 10, 2005 10:2124541
Change of Perspective. [301 words]Melvin HassanAug 10, 2005 10:1124540
The Lebanon precedent for Gaza [91 words]mhwAug 10, 2005 09:5324539
Withdrawal from Gaza [77 words]KamathAug 10, 2005 09:5324538
Disengagement as a long term goal [344 words]SteveGWAug 10, 2005 09:3424537
strategic withdrawal [123 words]Marvin RabinovitchAug 10, 2005 04:1524531
Israel v/s Islam [846 words]KanadAug 10, 2005 03:3924530
Doomed to relive it. [42 words]Howard E. CookAug 10, 2005 03:3224529
appeasement and retreat lead to utter extermination [123 words]Gilbert SimonsAug 10, 2005 03:1624528
I get your point, but I'm still in favor of the pull-out [286 words]Armand LaferrereAug 10, 2005 02:2624526
Stop the pullout now! [115 words]YovenAug 10, 2005 01:0524523
It is darul harb vs darul isalm, not Gaza or Kashmir [91 words]voice of indiaAug 10, 2005 00:2524520
today Gaza ... [132 words]Steven LAug 9, 2005 23:0324517
Islamic Agenda 21st Century [66 words]EskayAug 9, 2005 22:1024516
Today Gaza, Tomorrow Jerusalem? [247 words]William KleinAug 9, 2005 21:3624515
ThereĀ“s value in the withdrawal [72 words]Gerald S. DanknerAug 9, 2005 20:5424513
A voice of sanity [46 words]Steven FishbeinAug 9, 2005 20:3824512
Let's not neglect the economic reasons behind withdrawal. [112 words]Alexandru ConstantinescuAug 9, 2005 20:0624511
TODAY GAZA TOMORROW JERUSALEM [154 words]batya daganAug 9, 2005 19:1424510
It must be stopped before its to late. [150 words]SalimAug 9, 2005 19:0224509
Gaza [118 words]Irving WisemanAug 9, 2005 18:3324507
Another way of "naming" the Gaza Pullout [10 words]Bill ToutzAug 9, 2005 18:2624506
Justifiable War? [133 words]Bill KarkowAug 9, 2005 18:2624505
Same Elephant In Room, Same Paradigm [435 words]JTPAug 9, 2005 18:1624504
Disengagement is a mistake [82 words]JacobAug 9, 2005 17:3624503
Never Appease [108 words]ElizabethAug 9, 2005 17:2924502
Negative thinking of all Israeli Leaders from Left to right [195 words]David GoshenAug 9, 2005 16:5524500
NO to Palestinian Access to Gaza -West Bank Route. [133 words]AlanAug 9, 2005 16:4524499
Fighting from the wrong mindset [261 words]Steve ChambersAug 9, 2005 16:1224498
Develop a test [123 words]JohnAug 9, 2005 15:5124497
How about the real reason? [43 words]Tom from MinneapolisAug 9, 2005 15:4024496
the price of errors [185 words]ShelleyAug 9, 2005 15:2624495
Madness [7 words]PhillipAug 9, 2005 15:0224494
to Emannuel [250 words]Paul ZAug 9, 2005 14:2124493
Maybe eventually Palestinians will be treated to their own medicine. [52 words]maksmanAug 9, 2005 14:1224492
Gaza [179 words]Donald W. BalesAug 9, 2005 13:5624490
Sadly correct analysis... [67 words]J.S.Aug 9, 2005 13:4724489
The Samson Ethic? [349 words]Yehoshua ZellerAug 9, 2005 13:3124487
That's not the point... [269 words]dianeAug 9, 2005 13:1324485
Sadly, the Gaza Pullout is not Unique in Israeli History [168 words]Liz WagnerAug 9, 2005 13:0524484
Gaza withdrawal [53 words]Alyn StarkmanAug 9, 2005 13:0424483
What the real goal is ... [71 words]Gudrun EussnerAug 9, 2005 13:0224482
The hatred will never end... [70 words]Dave KatzAug 9, 2005 12:2324480
You are 100% correct!!! [33 words]Michael & Jacquelyn HevajraAug 9, 2005 12:2224479
Mr. Pipes is right, but... [163 words]Mark TylerAug 9, 2005 12:2024478
Yep [9 words]Melissa SeamanAug 9, 2005 12:1424477
I hope you are wrong. [92 words]Tim KaineAug 9, 2005 12:1124476
Who Cares? [53 words]Thomas DinsmoreAug 9, 2005 11:4824474
I wish you weren't correct, but I fear you are. [45 words]Magdalene IglarAug 9, 2005 11:4324473
Oh, oh! [62 words]yonasonAug 9, 2005 11:4224472
Life vs Death [11 words]Jay Martin BennettAug 9, 2005 11:2124471
Democracies DO move citizens. [120 words]DavidAug 9, 2005 11:0624470
Forcible eviction from Gush Katif [79 words]Dr. Leo HorowitzAug 9, 2005 11:0524469
social-science experiment. [123 words]Johanna StephensAug 9, 2005 11:0224468
Today Gaza, Tomorrow Jerusalem [164 words]Moses TayAug 9, 2005 10:5624467
Confusing points [367 words]EmanuelAug 9, 2005 10:5424466
Deluded And Deceived [171 words]DONEVANAug 9, 2005 10:4524465
Disengagement leads to war? [68 words]Jan VinkAug 9, 2005 10:3724464
Gaza Retreat Article [102 words]John SchwartzAug 9, 2005 10:3124463
the Hezbollah model? [104 words]mikeAug 9, 2005 10:2024462
Give an inch and take a mile [82 words]Vijay DandapaniAug 9, 2005 10:0424459
Engagement Not Disengagement [64 words]DanielAug 9, 2005 09:3724458
Israel's Critics [226 words]Stephen BermanAug 9, 2005 09:3624457

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