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Benchmarks

Reader comment on item: More on the Term "Islamic Fascists"
in response to reader comment: What is the historical thrust of Islam? Is that a benchmark to determine what is "normative" for Islam?

Submitted by Keith R. Snyder (United States), Aug 18, 2006 at 20:29

"Benchmark" is a great way to think of this discussion! I think Mr. Pipes's response doesn't take into consideration certain historical, religious, and sociological realities (although I do want to say I agree with him most of the time!). To say that the Islamists of late are taking Islam in "unprecedented directions" ignores the nature of the rise of Islam during and in the years following Muhammad's life.

Starting off meekly when in numbers too small to defend themselves, once his people gained in strength thanks to the merchants of Medina they began attacking anyone who refused to honor Muhammad as the prophet. The standard (norm) went from, "Let there be no compulsion in religion," to, "Attack the Christians every chance you get, cut off their opposing hands and feet, crucify them, etc., etc." And that first Crusade! What a bloodbath!

The jihadists under Muhammad, and later under the caliphate, conquered much of the Mediteranean Basin and then stretched into the East. And they didn't do it by sending missionaries to preach and build hospitals. An estimated 30,000 Christian churches and other religious entities converted to avoid the sword or debilitating dhimmitude, and individuals who "blasphemed" Muhammad were often killed, much to Muhammad's pleasure.

So are the Islamic terrorists acting in ways that are "unIslamic"? Depends on the benchmark used. Is the religion's founder and immediate successors a good enough benchmark? I say it is. Isn't that the very essence of what makes something normative? Someone may say, "But most Muslims aren't trying to murder those who disagree." Islam may have "evolved" over the centuries, but the founder of a system, whether political, religious, or otherwise defines the norms for whatever that system is. If it changes to something different, that change *is* something different. Those who want to get back to the original standards of the system by adopting the beliefs and other characteristics of the founder are not hijackers of the changed system. They are copies of the original, manifesting the benchmark (as well as showing the gap between the original and what it evolved into for what it is). If their beliefs and actions correspond to the founder's, they are quite "normative."

Submitting....

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Reader comments (35) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Islamo-fascists and the duck! [37 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 16, 2015 16:54221110
Islam is a Misnomer [202 words]Tariq BeyFeb 25, 2015 17:18221110
2Another needy Muslim [1073 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 26, 2015 08:00221110
Islamofascist; what a bunch of tripe [86 words]R.J. ConnorsApr 8, 2008 20:54125121
Islamic Fascism [351 words]E. David LitvakNov 1, 2006 22:3765043
For Dr. Pipes: It seems that there is a madrassa in Queens, NY [234 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
dhimmi no moreAug 21, 2006 06:5853589
The term 'fascist' correctly applied to Bush is co-opted [61 words]LeeAug 19, 2006 18:4153478
Not politically correct. [156 words]Robert LynnAug 18, 2006 05:1553326
When asked why are all the terrorists Muslims [84 words]John PhilipsAug 18, 2006 01:0953307
Islamic Fascism Is An Oxymoron: It's Like A Yellow Blackboard! [586 words]Allan E. MallenbaumAug 17, 2006 20:0053281
It is Fascism in deed if not form [162 words]TiberusAug 18, 2006 22:3453281
You know a great deal, but are still wrong [186 words]AyanAug 19, 2006 16:5553281
"FASCISM" BY MUSLIMS IS DIFFERENT FROM FASCISM BY CHRISTIANS [110 words]Allan E. MallenbaumAug 20, 2006 18:0653281
Thanks for the lesson re: Fascism [66 words]InfidelAug 21, 2006 01:0153281
What matters is what they do, not what they say [496 words]Edward ChristieSep 1, 2006 22:2753281
SAME PAGE [64 words]Allan E. MallenbaumSep 2, 2006 20:2353281
on target... [67 words]donvanMay 28, 2008 11:1053281
Tautology, not oxymoron [19 words]SteveNov 27, 2008 23:2253281
Rebuttal: Tautology, Not Oxymoron [42 words]AllanNov 28, 2008 21:4653281
What to Call Them [114 words]Marc MayersonAug 17, 2006 16:5453259
I like the title "Islamists" too but it is too nice. [227 words]TiberiusAug 17, 2006 16:1353253
Islamic Socialism. [1659 words]RalphAug 16, 2006 20:4853145
Perhaps Islamic Supremacist is a better term? [159 words]K GreenAug 16, 2006 11:5453057
Islamofascists [51 words]YolandaAug 15, 2006 04:0352876
Really? [257 words]PCMadnessAug 15, 2006 23:0452876
Yolanda (rabina yukhaliha) and the kettle and the pot old cliche! [113 words]dhimmi no moreAug 30, 2006 13:1752876
Warped Logic [169 words]YolandaAug 31, 2006 13:3552876
Bush and his lack of respect for other cultures [89 words]YolandaAug 31, 2006 13:4352876
For Yolanda (rabina Yukhaliha) And more about the kettle and the pot [100 words]dhimmi no moreAug 31, 2006 19:1652876
For Yolanda (rabina Yukhaliha) And is islam a culture?part deux [4 words]dhimmi no moreAug 31, 2006 19:1752876
For Yolanda (rabina Yukhaliha) al-faylasoofa al-kabeera and Mr. Occam! [307 words]dhimmi no moreSep 1, 2006 07:1552876
Tyranny [73 words]YolandaSep 2, 2006 02:4052876
What is the historical thrust of Islam? Is that a benchmark to determine what is "normative" for Islam? [55 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
StephenAug 14, 2006 22:2652843
Benchmarks [365 words]Keith R. SnyderAug 18, 2006 20:2952843
"moderate" Islam vs AlQaeda - who has the bigger delta vs. historical Islam? [218 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
StephenAug 20, 2006 14:0452843

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