In response

Submitted by Ömer (Turkey), May 17, 2007 at 02:15

>Like a good Turk you wrote

Why, thank you.

>I thought that committing genocides and then denying them or blaming the victims and getting away with such crimes is more exciting to a Turk! Shame. But wait: so invading the lands of others, raping, enslaving, murder and kidnapping of Christian boys does not excite a Turk anymore? Just amazing.

We did no more and much less than any imperial power. That we treated Europeans only somewhat better than they treated, say, Africans is not something to be proud of, but I am not going to wail over events centuries old. Absolutely amazing.

>Bogus. The Turks became Muslims because they wanted to join other Arabs and wannabe Arabs in looting and invading the lands of the infidles and abducting the boys of the infidles and converting them to islam and sending them back as fighting machines to brutalize their own people (the crime of the janissaries and the Stockholm syndrome before there was even one). And in this case the looting will be in the name of an Arabian deity Allah that is who will get 1/5 of the loot (Q:41). Could this be the reason?

You really should study your history, with particular reference to the conversion of the Turks. In brief, we converted because we were whipped by Arab armies and also saw the benefits of their civilisation. As for the devshirme, if the Bosnians converted to Islam but pleaded to retain the system, *by the standards of the day* it can't have been all that bad. Moroever, while no-one would argue for devshirme today, why, 170-odd years after it was finally abolished, do you still feel the need to argue against it? I mean, historical memory has a point, but do you not think that yammering on about this some 6 generations later is weird?

>Missing are the Armenians! Well I guess they do not count. Well, I guess like a good Turk you will tell us that the Armenian genocide never happened and give us some gobbledygook explanation of why there was no such thing as the Armenian genocide. No thank you and spare us this one.

Armenians are best known in Turkey for the quality of their silver work. On the other hand, I can't offhand remember a single Armenian philosopher or jurist of note, unlike many Greek or Roman. Perhaps you could help out?

>But more strange is that most "Turks" are the decendants of non-Turks be it Greeks or Armenians (gasp!) and I would bet you a buck that the chances are you ain't no Turk (the decendant of those barbarians that came from central Asia) and that your ancestors are more likely than not Greeks or Armenians (gasp again!) so why is that self hate? but I suppose old civilizations are not conjured away not by the Turks and not by islam or Arabism.

Not at all strange. Anatolia has long been a melting pot. Of course we are a mongrel breed. Works for me. What's your problem?

>But our dear Omer, the Qur'an really says that Islam is the religion of the Hijazi Arabs only (Q14:4) and you ain't no Arab. Only a wannabe Arab. And you know what? During the occupation of the Middle East by the Turks no Arab had any like for the Turks. Even being Muslims and wannabe Arabs the Turks were regarded as aliens. See what happens when you detach yourself from your past? And do you know what is most painful for the Turks is that even after some 700 years they still do not feel very secure in the lands of the old Byzantine empire and they all seem to be moving by the truck load to the lands of the infidles and why is that our dear Omer?.

There seems no end to your self-amusement, and I am now wondering whether a reasoned argument is possible with you or whether, by gaping into the abyss of fundamentalists' rhetorical madness, the abyss has gazed right back at you. But to go on. I may have a better grasp of history than you may credit. And I feel quite secure. :))

>And why is that? You mean no more caliphate? Or could it be that you have realized that you have nothing in common with the Arabs...or is it self hate again?

If I had to be brief, I'd say the Enlightenment. We have a great deal in common with the Arabs. No, it is not self hate, merely rational thought.

>But if Turkey is to join the EU the ultimate punishment to the Turks will be the Greeks and Armenians coming back to the land of their ancestors and reclaiming what was taken away from them.

As if the Greeks and Armenians had nothing better to do.

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".