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The Church of the Umayyads in Damascus

Reader comment on item: Mosque in Cordoba, Church in Damascus

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Apr 4, 2010 at 10:02

Dr Pipes you wrote

>Still no word of militant Christians praying in the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, much less tussling with guards there.

Very interesting observation. But again one can very much re-write the history of early Islam and the credit must go to John Wasnbrough.

In a new book (The Hidden Origins of Islam) by Gerd Puin, of the San'a Qur'an, the whole history of early Islam can be re-written and it goes a follows

Historians of early islam realize that islam's origin is not from al-Hijaz but from the civilized late Antique Middle East or what is called as the area of al-hilal al-khaseeb and read this as Syria, Palestine, Mesopotamia and Iran.

The first attested real historical charcter in the saga of islam is Mu3awiyya. As for the so called al-Khulafa' al-rashiduun (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali) there is no extant evidence that can attest to the existence of these four Khulafa' and what we have is only literary evidence that was written 250-300 years after the death of Muhammad and the chances are they never existed.

Now back to Mu3awiyya and what is surprising about Mu3awiyya are the following facts:

1. His name is not an Arabic name but a Syriac name as the word Mu3awiyya means in Syriac: the weeper which can be seen as a nom de guerre so why would an Arab select a Syriac name unless he was born and lived his life among Syriac speakers and this could be in Syria/Palestine which should make us doubt that Mu3awiyya had anything to do with al-Hijaz. Just imagine if let us say the King of England moving to India after the British invasion of India and calling himself let us say Kumar or some indian name

2. Notice that Mu3awiyya selected Damascus as his capital and not Mecca or Medina and this will be like the king of England moving to New Delhi and declaring it the capital of the British Empire. Well the chances are he selected Damascus because he was more likely than not born in Syria among the Arab tribes that lived in the Syrian desert and attested in Herodotus

3. And this was a time when having a cultic/religious center is an essential part of political control and in this case the Kanisat Yuhanna al-me3midani or the Chruch of John the Baptist in Damascus and where his body is located. But this really means that Mu3awiyya was not Muslim as there really was no islam at that time and he was (gasp!) Christian and Nestorian like most of the Arabs that lived in the Syrian desert at that time

4. In the above book Volker Popp reviews coins that were minted in Syria and many of them dated to the time of Mu3awiyya and from an epigraphy at the baths in Gadara, Syria that indeed indicate that he was Christian and that the cult of John the Baptist was his cause and what is even more interesting we have a new dating system which is called "Era of the Arabians (Arabas in Greek)" and nothing about a Hijra and that this new dating syatem started when the Greeks defeated Iran in a decisive battle in 622CE and a political vaccum was left and this is when the local Arabs (the likes of Mu3awiyya) stepped in and took control and this was what was to become the Arab empire

5. The very much Syriac term Muhammdan rasul allah (as it later appears in the inscriptions of al-masjad al-aqsa) really means the blessed (read this as Jesus) is the servant of Allah and it has nothing to do with Muhammad. As for Mu3awiyya amir al-mu'mineen (the prince of the faithful) it should be read as al-mu'aamineen or those protected (from the Arabic word amana or safety)

6. More later about Abd al-Malik and what I believe it to be moving the cultic center of the Arabs and the Christian Umayyads to Jerusalem

7. The Chruch of Yuhanna al-ma3midani was converted to a mosque not by the Umayyads but by the 3Abbassids and to be more specific by al-Khalifa al-Ma'muun after his trips across the Middle East including a visit to Mecca and Medina where among other things the house where Muhammad is supposed to have lived and was identified and the cult of Muhammad begins and the Hijazi orientation of what to become islam begins. And I suepect that al-Ma'muun selected a cutlic site (in Mecca) that is so far away from the watchful eyes of the very sophisticated Nestorians that did not believe a word about this new religion of the Arabs

Now back to Damascus: I guess that such Church is a monument to how much we seem to know about early Islam but because of the tyranny of the islamic historical tradition we are not able to admit it

Submitting....

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Reader comments (85) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Equivalence between the Mosque in Cordoba and Church in Damascus [306 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PrashantJun 3, 2017 08:50239434
Thanks for questioning my comment [78 words]PrashantJun 5, 2017 22:19239434
Hypocrisy stinks [155 words]PrashantMay 7, 2015 00:53223207
Provocation [43 words]AlbertE.Apr 18, 2015 11:29222942
4The great Church of St Theonas in Alexandria was converted to a Mosque [165 words]dhimmi no moreApr 18, 2015 08:40222936
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1Microscopic Islamization in Turkey (which quickly adds up to become macroscopic) [128 words]PrashantNov 29, 2013 15:17211919
1Many Jews Are Dhimmis [39 words]DaveSep 17, 2012 10:33198741
New Amsterdam, New York, New Cordoba [796 words]mythAug 6, 2010 17:19176429
mosque on a top of Temple Mount [21 words]AlexanderJun 22, 2010 13:36174667
A mosque in cordoba and a cordoba near ground zero. [180 words]PPSMay 11, 2010 02:04172539
In Allah we trust [35 words]b soetoroApr 11, 2010 09:29171189
Church in Tribal lands of mohamed !!! [80 words]Muslimk***Apr 21, 2010 04:00171189
In Allah we trust part 2 [81 words]b soetoroApr 22, 2010 23:41171189
Quoting a great comment I've read about this elsewhere: [20 words]huckApr 6, 2010 04:18170989
1will they reciprocate ? [52 words]HMApr 5, 2010 12:52170962
1What is a mosque really? [108 words]G.VishvasApr 5, 2010 07:51170952
bravo G.Vishwas [126 words]Muslimk***Apr 6, 2010 16:22170952
A mosque is where you leart to prey [31 words]cancerarianApr 6, 2010 20:09170952
1to muslimkush [238 words]G.VishvasApr 7, 2010 03:57170952
The uncivilised civilised the civilised [48 words]Civilised.Apr 15, 2010 14:46170952
you be liberal, let them be invaders; have you been taught that? [67 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiMay 4, 2010 06:22170952
HINDU numerals [146 words]JIMJFOXApr 20, 2015 12:22170952
1The Church of the Umayyads in Damascus [812 words]dhimmi no moreApr 4, 2010 10:02170933
to DhimmiNoMore [14 words]ASApr 6, 2010 05:21170933
The Church of the Umayyads in Damascus part deux [110 words]dhimmi no moreApr 7, 2010 16:47170933
3In islamists countries, Jews, Christians, Hindus are not safe. [91 words]Phil GreendJul 7, 2009 10:51158566
3Christians,Jews,Hindus,Sikhs and Buddhists are not even safe in Non Muslim Countries with Muslim Communities [107 words]RahulApr 5, 2010 08:28158566
and before it was a mosque . . . [124 words]MarcusApr 11, 2007 09:5189021
Cordoba's not originally a mosque [76 words]gus3Mar 19, 2007 20:4887018
Reciprocity is a good way [31 words]FarrukhFeb 4, 2007 04:5675882
1Free Trade In Religion [48 words]Robert TFeb 6, 2007 12:5475882
2Extreme Hypocrisy [54 words]Abdul KhanJan 9, 2007 08:4772150
1Stop the Cordoba mosque [78 words]OctavioJan 3, 2007 20:1271586
The invaders demolished a cathedral and built the mosque over it [39 words]AnaJan 6, 2007 03:3871586
New Spain was built on Muslim foundations [216 words]SARAHJan 22, 2007 09:4071586
1Al Andalus was built on Roman and Visigothic foundations, luv... [1077 words]GlennodadJan 23, 2007 19:5671586
to Sarah - so where did the moors come from in Spain? [42 words]ASApr 12, 2010 07:3971586
1Stop-Please. [154 words]Maura CollinsJan 3, 2007 12:0071532
1How about the temple mount [64 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJan 2, 2007 17:3171455
Well said, Yuval [158 words]EileenJan 6, 2007 16:3371455
for an interesting solution to the temple mount [7 words]EileenJan 8, 2007 18:3771455
Reciprocity is the backbone of civility [89 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dan GoorevitchJan 2, 2007 14:2371431
Hagia [28 words]Lu An LiApr 18, 2015 11:2471431
getting blood out of a stone looks easy compared to this [36 words]David W. LincolnJan 2, 2007 13:3271426
1Mosque comes from Mask [198 words]Abu NuwasJan 2, 2007 09:0871416
Houses of Ill Repute [242 words]clarence puckettJan 1, 2007 23:4971396
Mosque = church = synagogue [56 words]Steven LJan 1, 2007 21:1671390
how about in israel [81 words]ralph shapiroJan 1, 2007 19:0471371
Lest we forget... [37 words]J. MackJan 2, 2007 14:4471371
Oh! Europe [156 words]Caesar M. ArevaloJan 1, 2007 18:0471363
...Taking advice from Oriana..well that says it all.. [129 words]SarahJan 22, 2007 11:0471363
The Truth about Islam is hard to digest. [585 words]Caesar M. ArevaloJan 22, 2007 22:3671363
Cesar,You are wrong!! [475 words]SarahJan 28, 2007 08:2371363
MUSLIM IN DENIAL ONLY PROOF THAT THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM IS HARD TO DIGEST [903 words]Caesar M. ArevaloJan 29, 2007 23:3971363
djskl [64 words]jaffarApr 27, 2008 02:4171363
Islam: Religion of Hate [757 words]CaesarApr 28, 2008 03:4771363
why muslims think their religion the only religion without knowing other religion in depth [143 words]shashi sandhuApr 6, 2009 20:5671363
I do not understand your thoughts [62 words]CaesarApr 8, 2009 12:3371363
What about personal responsibility ? [287 words]DavidJan 1, 2007 16:2471348
Total agreement with tenor of postings - but........... [272 words]David CampbellJan 1, 2007 15:3571341
How about the Temple Mount? [38 words]Zvi LandoJan 1, 2007 15:1871336
Church goes Mosque goes Cathedral [16 words]Paco SantaellaDec 31, 2006 08:2871222
To Paco Santaella [12 words]Inna (Tchkah)Jan 2, 2007 02:4471222
think small - is reciprocity an option? [267 words]jDec 30, 2006 08:3771126
Is thinking about other cultures as children an option? [10 words]Dan GoorevitchJan 2, 2007 15:3571126
PS [6 words]Dan GoorevitchJan 2, 2007 18:1871126
think small Reciprocity, give and take is the backbone of civility, not just take [76 words]jJan 3, 2007 08:1871126
Good idea [134 words]SafrazDec 30, 2006 02:4471095
safraz ... as always [19 words]susanJan 11, 2007 10:4371095
Another idea [72 words]Peter HerzDec 29, 2006 22:4471087
Reciprocity and accountability [102 words]No DhimmiDec 29, 2006 10:2371008
"No Dhimmi" is right. [364 words]Ynna(Tchkah)Dec 29, 2006 22:0571008
Yes, Ynna!!! [130 words]JaladhiJan 4, 2007 10:3871008
To Jaladhi [388 words]Ynna(tchkah)Jan 5, 2007 02:4471008
to No Dhimmi - Cordoba and Haga Sophia are not the same [20 words]ASJun 14, 2010 07:0271008
The pagans of Mecca [184 words]dhimmi no moreDec 29, 2006 07:5070995
reciprocity [65 words]jon purizhanskyDec 29, 2006 06:2270991
what about other churches [111 words]VijayDec 29, 2006 04:3070983
Hindus praying in Mosques? [62 words]Romesh ChanderJan 1, 2007 15:3370983
With Muslims, its always a one way street, don't ever expect anything back from them. [401 words]JaladhiJan 2, 2007 15:2370983
why muslim downgrade other religion [49 words]shashi sandhuApr 9, 2009 21:2470983
One religion only. [8 words]Civilised.Apr 15, 2010 14:4970983
How about reciprocal rights also to.......Jews? [121 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MosheDec 29, 2006 03:5170976
Dr. Pipes, a small clarification. [139 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MosheJan 2, 2007 14:3770976

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