Islamic civilisation

Submitted by Mozere (United Kingdom), Mar 13, 2012 at 11:57

1 In my posts I have expressed my opinions as distilled through readings of a vast number of historians such as E. Zurcher,B.Lewis H.Inalcik et. al.Any historian with a modicum of sympathy for the ottoman cause is labelled,by you, as in the pay of the Turks.This is the age of internet,anybody who needs to read the relevant sources can doso easily,we are not in the 1980s.

2 I take exception when you quote Heinrich von Treitschke as an outstanding historian, to me he was a demagogue,a proto nazi,an opinionated anti semitic anti slav warmonger.A man to your heart I guess.Had he lived through WW2 he would probably been tried as a war criminal and hung.

3 It is you who do not make comparisons,W Europe of 17th century where being of a different religion meant you were risking your life ,consider the inquisition.Consider the extinction of old Baltic Prussians which von Treitschke condoned also his advocating of Germanisation of Poles.Compare the survival of Balkan nations intact with their lands,cultures and languages to the fates of the Baltic nations under German and Russian hegemony.Once a great nation the Luthianians are now reduced to a mere fraction of their size in land and population.

4 Treitschke accuses the Ottomans of being a nomadic empire having no civilisation and thus no moral authority to rule.Nomadic empires do not last for 500 years,do your own google search on this ie Mongols.Ottoman empire brought the Islamic civilisation tothe Balkans,you may not like it the way some Balkan peoples liked it and it was not pushed down their throats,but it was nevertheless a civilisation.If you deny this it is your problem. Many fine mosques,inns,civil engineering works,islamic object d'arts were left behind.Contrary to what he says the Ottomans gave great importance to commerce,when in Europe trade was restricted due to toll charges and borders trade was flourishing in the Ottoman lands as attested by the numerous caravanserais all over the place.When the Portuguese opened up seaways to the far east decay was inevitable.Industrial revolution in w Europe compounded the decay .This is what he saw in the Balkans and ignoring the socio economic causes of this he blamed the Ottomans.A shallow historian that he is.

5 The European empires benefitted the mother countries as they were the empires of nation states .When they withdrew from their colonies we did not see a massive textiles industry in Calcuta,copper refineries in Congo,chocolate factories in Ghana but poverty ,illeteracy and a sense of being robbed was left behind.

6 You can compare the janissaries to modern day conscription ,many christian children were given away to the state voluntarily for the sake of a bright future for the children,and many of them did help their christian kin when they attained high offices.By defending the empire they coincidentally defended their original communities from the advances of Austrians and Hungarian advances.Thus ensuring these nationalities survival.

7 Equating the victims of Tripolitsa massacre to the killing of nazi guards in Warsaw uprising is an insult to the inmates of the ghetto,they did not kill women and children.What you are saying is that it is OK to kill the muslim population in 1821 because of the atrocities in 1770.We should not persue this line of thought in the 21st century.What I am saying is that ignoring the christian atrocities against the muslim populations of Rumelia,anatolia and tha caucasus and saying only the muslims are capable of such deeds will only lead to mindless hatred.

8 While upholding the freedom of speech and your right to it, I think your view of history is totally one sided and full of hate .The fact that you,patronisingly,do not consider us Turks to be refined enough for rational thought is beyond contempt and does not merit a reply,it only exposes your state of mind

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