"Islamic civilization" = the Skull Tower of Nis and the Skull Cathedral of Otranto

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Mar 13, 2012 at 19:26

Mozere wrote :

> 1 In my posts I have expressed my opinions as distilled through readings of a vast number of historians such as E. Zurcher,B.Lewis H.Inalcik et. al. Any historian with a modicum of sympathy for the ottoman cause is labelled,by you, as in the pay of the Turks.

B. Lewis and H. Inalcik are, of course, Turkish court historians and so interesting only inasmuch as they confirm and elaborate on a priori Turkish propaganda. E. Zurcher seems to be following them faithfully too, hence his popularity in Turkey. Critical books on Turkey are not printed but confiscated and banned in Turkey. It was so under Abdul Hamid II and under Kemal, the so called Ataturk, and it remains so under imam Erdogan too. So don't try to fool us by quoting the names.

> This is the age of internet,anybody who needs to read the relevant sources can doso easily,we are not in the 1980s.<

You don't understand the difference between "source" and "interpretation", do you? You're just a Turk and so not much is to be expected or demanded from you in terms of thinking.

What "source" on the Ottoman history can a man writing in our time be? NONE!!! Treitschke instead is a source in double sense. He lived at the time of the Ottoman empire and he voiced what such eyewitnesses as Moltke and others had seen and written about Turkey. Zurcher, Lewis -or Maccarthy whom you failed to mention - can at best express their own opportunist opinions and get paid, published and popularized in Turkey for doing it. They are NO sources at all and when confronted with real sources they fail dismally to fulfill any rigorous scientific criteria! What e.g. Lewis writes about janissaries or Jews in the Ottoman empire is at best incomplete and at worse a caricature.

> 2 I take exception when you quote Heinrich von Treitschke as an outstanding historian, to me he was a demagogue,a proto nazi,an opinionated anti semitic anti slav warmonger.A man to your heart I guess.Had he lived through WW2 he would probably been tried as a war criminal and hung.<

Is it all you know about him? Can you accumulate a few more politically correct phrases and un-words about him?Feel free to continue! After all glib propaganda and trite generalities is all you are able to do, isn't it ?

Imagine that Treitschke hated Turkish barbarity because like any of his contemporaries he saw its horrors in Bulgaria. Remember Batak ? If you don't ,then it is time to refresh your holey memory and then and only then to ask why Turks have always been so much hated and rightly resented as barbarians always are by the civilized nations ?

Anyway, imagine that the Ottoman Turks made an alliance with people like Treitschke and people like him wrote the first-hand , documented and probably the most complete account of the Armenian genocide you Turks committed starting in 1915 "Deutschland und Armenien". So instead of blaming him for imaginary thought crimes you should better take a closer look at your own Ottoman and Kemalsit record of genocides, massacres and jihad and start puttng to the pillory and hanging your own real war criminals instead of inventing and persecuting imagined ones and thus adding nonsense to dishonesty.

> 4 Treitschke accuses the Ottomans of being a nomadic empire having no civilisation and thus no moral authority to rule.<

It is not just Treitschke - an author contemporary to the Ottoman empire- it is first of all his sources that do that. So when you have all sources showing and saying something you'd draw the conclusion that the opposite was the case? In Turkey for not following this "logic" you will be jailed for 3-4 years for denigrating Turkishness, won't you ? (This is my answer to your remark on "freedom of speech" in your nasty Turkish police state).

> Nomadic empires do not last for 500 years,do your own google search on this ie Mongols.<

The mechanism by which the Satanic Turkish primitivism imposed and upheld its yoke upon higher civilization is to my knowledge best explained by Treitschke. Any google search (What substitute is it to reading real contemporary source? ;) won't undermine its depth and obscure its sad veracity.

> Ottoman empire brought the Islamic civilisation tothe Balkans,you may not like it the way some Balkan peoples liked it and it was not pushed down their throats,but it was nevertheless a civilisation.

Barbarity and nomadism which the Turks brought with them is no civilization but its very opposite!!! We Europeans do know your Turkish "Islamic civilization" quite well. The Skull Tower of Nis and the Skull Cathedral of Otranto where the wretched Italians were massacred by the savage Islamic Turkish horde in 1480 are its typical landmarks and everlasting monuments.

I'd even say that Turkey is in more than a metaphorical sense a huge Skull Tower stretching from the Evros to Alexandrette. It has been literally built upon skulls and bones of our ancestors and Treitschke rightly said that the wounds which your mentally sterile Asiatic Turkish horde inflicted upon us still bleed after 500 years.

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