So wrong on so many levels

Submitted by Peter Hall (Australia), Aug 18, 2012 at 23:44

Well AAA, I cannot believe how someone can be so ignorant of the facts, and so proud to display that ignorance.

your comment

"Alexandria, Baghdad and Constantinople became centres of knowledge and learning after Islam spread into those areas. Dumbing down and decrease in inventiveness of a population cannot occur due to religion."

I guess you have never heard of the Great Library of Alexandria? Do you know why it doesn't exist anymore and why you haven't heard about it?

John the Grammarian, a famous Peripatetic philosopher, being in Alexandria at the time of its capture, and in high favour with 'Amr, begged that he would give him the royal library. 'Amr told him that it was not in his power to grant such a request, but promised to write to the caliph for his consent. Omar, on hearing the request of his general, is said to have replied that if those books contained the same doctrine with the Koran, they could be of no use, since the Koran contained all necessary truths; but if they contained anything contrary to that book, they ought to be destroyed; and therefore, whatever their contents were, he ordered them to be burnt. Pursuant to this order, they were distributed among the public baths, of which there was a large number in the city, where, for six months, they served to supply the fires.

http://historymedren.about.com/od/aentries/a/11_alexandria_2.htm

So you think Alexandria of today competes with the pre islamic Alexandria?

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/egypt/tp/012911-Library-Of-Alexandria-Scholars.htm

Have a read of the advances and history of re Islamic Alexandria, it was predominantly a Greek and Jewish centre of learning, until Islam arrived with the result clearly showing now.

As to Constantinople ?

http://www.roman-empire.net/constant/constant-index.html

these are just a few links amongst thousands which clearly show tha these were all important centres of learning before Islam arrived, and are all now intellectual wastelands.

How many Muslim Universities are rated in the top 500 in the world? Or top 100?

Then you say

"Can you show me one valid reference with proof that muslims inherited their scientific achievements from their non-muslim predecessors?

If I take your question literally, then it is impossible to answer, as you ask for a single proof that "Muslims" and all their scientific "Acheivements" were a development based on existing concepts, inventions and ideas.

However I can provide many examples where Muslims claim as an invention a development of an earlier invention, or a concept that originated elsewhere.

Example

The Arabic Number system was actually a development of the Hindu system invented and developed by Indians in the 1st to 5th Century. The Arabic deciamal numbering systemvdid not orignate with the arabs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system

Katz, in A History of Mathematics says that:^[2]

A complete history of mathematics of medieval Islam cannot yet be written, since so many of these Arabic manuscripts lie unstudied... Still, the general outline... is known. In particular, Islamic mathematicians fully developed the decimal place-value number system to include decimal fractions, systematised the study of algebra and began to consider the relationship between algebra and geometry, studied and made advances on the major Greek geometrical treatises of Euclid, Archimedes, and Apollonius, and made significant improvements in plane and spherical geometry.

An important role was played by the translation and study of Greek mathematics, which was the principal route of transmission of these texts to Western Europe. Smith notes that:^[3]

The world owes a great debt to Arab scholars for preserving and transmitting to posterity the classics of Greek mathematics... their work was chiefly that of transmission, although they developed considerable ingenuity in algebra and showed some genius in their work in trigonometry.

Another example of Muslims trying to claim an "invention" I will quote ou source

http://metaexistence.org/inventions.htm

this article claims

Water turbine
The first water turbine, which had water wheels with curved blades onto which water flow was directed axially, was first described in a 9th century Arabic text for use in a watermill.

Your beloved wikipedia clearly does not agree with your source. According to wikipedia the water turbine has its origins with the Romans and developed my many civilzations since. With the French giving us the modern turbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_turbine

So clearly the Turbine predated the Islamic period and there isnt even an example of it being actually made by the so called inventor, only a vague reference to being "described"

Do you need more examples AAA? Well lets look at flight. If Muslims invented wings and the hang glider, were Muslism hangliding everywhere using this great Muslim invention? Well?

Clearly if you make something that is neither practical or functonal, you have invented NOTHING! The Wings decribed wound the equivalent of what my 8yo nephew made when he jumped off the garage roof wanting to fly, he just broke his arm, he was obviously much more successful that the Muslim Abbas ibn Firnas, because he broke his back.

A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn't. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles' feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing - concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing. Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him

Ilays Educational Academy, Lasanod, Nugaal Sare (Sool) County, SOMALIA – Phone:

http://www.ilaysac.org/English/Caalamka%20Islaamka.pdf

For thousands of years humans have wanted to fly like a bird, many tried and failed. Only the self delusioned Somali trying to build up some Muslim pride would quote a guy who jumped off buildings and breaking his back as an inventor. In modern society we call people who create things that DO NOT WORK failures, not Inventors!

Then you say

"If you say that "The main constant to the decline of intellect is Islam" then tell me the reason why there are so many underdeveloped non-muslim countries. Not every underdeveloped country in the world is muslim. Still do you think that Islam is responsible for their plight?"

If you cannot see the flaw in your statement, let me point it out. However firstly you need a little education.

The terms Developed Countries and Underdeveloped Countries it a function of the level of civilzation a society has achieved. Therefore every society starts out as Under developed. So you question is moot.

However, if you look at Muslim countries and why they virtually all are ranked low on the Human Development Index and other relative measures, one has to ask the question why?

Societies like The Australian Aboriginals, or tribes of central africa were isolated, and did not have the animals to domesticate nor the crops to farm, and were isolated form interaction with other cultures.

Most Muslim countries do not have this problem.

most Muslim countries were considered to be advanced relative to other societies prior to the arrival of Islam.Egypt is a perfect example. In 1950 Egypt had the same standard of living as Korea. As islam has gained more influence, so has the standard of living and freedom in Egypt has declined.

Iran in the 1950s although it had the Shah, had a much higher standard of living relative to the rest of the world, than today.

A perfect example is Pakistan and India. Both countries have a similar ethnic and cultural roots, the difference is Islam, and Pakistan is falling behind India more and more, guess what? The percentage of Muslims in Pakistan has gone from roughly 80% in 1950 to 97% today.

Turkey was a secular society, yet it still managed to ethnically cleanse Turkey of virtually all non Muslims and is now 98% Muslim, since Turkey has adopted a more Islamic view, Turkey has started its decline again.

Finally you ask me

Why don't you give some examples from countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey and Iran where significant scientific progress has happened in recent years?

I ask you, a question, name some inventions or scientific discoveries that change our lives that have originated from Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey or Iran in the last 100years?

There are approximately 500 million people in those countries, so surely there must be a really, really BIG list? I am not asking just recent years, I am giving you a 100 year window!!!!

What are these significant developments you claim? Are they flying machines that dont work? Magic carpets? Or did a goat come in and eat all these "significant Discoveries" but they really do exist because you Mullah told you so?

Your final gem was

About the quote by Bertrand Russell about Islamic science, don't you think that being "admirable in many technical ways" and lacking the "intellectual energy required for innovation" is a self contradictory statement?

Actually it is not "self contradictory" , lol. do you understand what the word contradictory means?

Maybe I can explain it to you so you understand. What he was saying is that the Muslim scholars were competent mathematicians or engineers, but they were not creative or innovative.

Muslims did not create the Computer, nor the light bulb, nor radio nor the printing press nor powered controlled flight, nor the automobile nor the wristwatch nor the modern scientific method.

Many Muslims had ideas and tried to make them work, and borrowed others ideas and tried to improve upon them but every society does that!!

What I find objectionable is that I have never heard the term a Christian or Atheist or Buddhist invention, only Muslims make these claims.

No race is intellectually superior to another, there are innovative and intelligent people everywhere. Whether a society produces the fruits of that intelligence is a result of the environment, politics and religion.

Islam has proved itself to be a factor in dumbing down its populations, to say otherwise is ridiculous.

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