Why Thank you , Sigmund

Submitted by sara (United States), Sep 29, 2012 at 21:32

Hello again Sigmund,

You say: I am surprised you ask this. Let's say we had 1000 people. 900 reacted violently and 100 were convinced. Not everyone has to react uniformly

Therein lies the rub. You ascribe far more individuality than I do to people who pray 5 times daily, get their news and opinions from their Imams and have extreme reactions to any perceived slight against a religious figure as part of their culture and their religious identity. I do not believe that people in this group have much individual thinking. There are set cultural mores and tribal mindsets and they are vastly different from yours. Fact.

Out of 1.5 billion Muslims, just a tiny number are rioting at any one time. In fact, only a small percentage have ever rioted but there is an abundant supply of potential rioters. If the Imams wished, they could organize their rioters in shifts and keep it going forever.

You are proving my point above...

"Freedom of expression is every bit as important to people in the United States and other Western nations as the Muslims desire to make others kowtow to their (i.e. Muslim) beliefs." This is not physical exhaustion or lack of resources. This is exhaustion of the will to continue which comes from no longer believing that it is worthwhile to continue

I think that their fervor is greatly underestimated and that this is such a seminal cause and personal affront, and the victim/persecuted mentality is so strong, that it could self perpetuate for a very long time. I don't see how this would cause them to change their thinking or come to any appreciation or realization about freedom of expression or the west. You can find plenty of imams in western countries who are 'acclimated' dancing around screaming the same thing as those in the ME.

But actually, there is a rather low percentage of rants here for such hot topics. Much of what is written here is just as "theoretical" as my comments. And I believe that this is good.

We agree on this

In any case, I agree that with your final conclusion that we want to get to peace.

Unfortunately a truth that is too often forgotten.

So, tell us how to do it. Do we get there by endlessly going over the same ground that has been gone over for decades? I believe we need some new ideas. Perhaps you have them.

Well I am flattered that you think I might have answers. As it happens, I do. I believe that cultures should be respected in their differences and not constantly made equal. and these differences in culture must be acknowledged in order to achieve results. I think I have commented elsewhere on the example that when Israel gave up the Sinai for a piece of paper, it was perceived as weakness since the Arabs have no respect for weakness or contracts/agreements unless done in a way that they respect. Billions of dollars were the impetus for the fragile peace, held together by Mubarak for the money. Returning Gaza did nothing to appease Hamas or PA because they again perceived it as weakness and are emboldened ever since. The US leaving Iraq and Afghanistan will also have a price. The way to deal with people who respect strength and understand how to deal with strong vs weak is to achieve deterrence through strength. In other words, the peace is caused due to fear of the consequences. Israel has lost that since the Lebanon war to great effect. As offensive as you probably find this, I would ask that you try to acknowledge that there are cultures and values that are not western and it is arrogant to assume otherwise, not that theyre better or worse, just different. When we go into indigenous tribes or exotic cultures, we place a premium on adapting to their customs. This is no different and is not meant as a slight in any way.

To boil it down to a sentence: If you want peace, prepare for war. That is what works in the ME. Always has and always will and unfortunately, it offends the softer sensibilities of westerners who are afraid to be strong.

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