69 million page views

And Why Again Could Yeshua Not Be the Messiah?

Reader comment on item: How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes toward Israel
in response to reader comment: Michael S. I invite you to read the following article:

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Sep 17, 2014 at 19:14

Please pardon the the side bar here.

To start, thanks for bringing the AISH site to the forefront, for it helps in understanding the times in the past where Jewish friends would try to understand my take on a relationship with the Eternal Sovereign in a way that they themselves would not. As mentioned elsewhere, this reader is of the goyim; there are, as far as can be genetically determined, no Hebrew roots.

Yet, I am as an ardent disciple of the Holy One of Israel as any of the goyim can be; and I have discernment that my faith (the same faith as Abraham) is answered by Him in prayer. But in your response to Michael S., there are those who have flirted with a 'messianic' revelation, just as many 'Christians' have done with Christianity; yet something was missed and it is this presumption here that it was not the Eternal Sovereign's fault that any went back on a confession of belief.

That being said, item for item, let us look at the AISH list (Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

  1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
  2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
  3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
  4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

….is the same that has been told for the ages, its tenacity bearing a truth about the sons of Jacob that has in its roots many of the reasons as spoken of by Moses in the Debarim.

That being said, is it not possible that what is being handled as a truth for Judaic consumption might be coming from a more human approach rather that a more detailed search of the Scriptures (let us stick with the Tanach(sp)), for indeed the Anointed One is spoken of there so many times. Only in the interpretation of how the fulfillments come to pass are there significant changes of perception.

  1. As is correctly observed, not just any one will be able to fulfill messianic prophecies; but the specifications of which prophecies are to the fulfilled must include all the prophesies, not just the ones that fall for a mere human to accomplish, for no mere mortal can fulfill Isaiah 9:6. Tehn, what of the Psalms, like the 2nd, or the 110th, in which the throne at the Temple can only be occupied by He whom the eternal designates? But what of the pre-kingdom attributes, like that mentioned in Isaiah 49:5, 6, 7; are we to gather that [And now the LORD says, he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him ] comes from a circular argument in the mind of the Eternal? Is the idea that the messiah being a servant first before being a king is all that repugnant? Was not David a shepherd before being anointed king?
  2. Presuming that it is acknowledged (as some will say not) that Yeshua was, indeed, an actual historical personage as attested to by Josephus, then we can move to whether he actually bore the qualifications that meets messianic standards or if there was any evidence that might have disqualified him from Jewish perspective. From the disciple's perspective, it is the Jewish view that led to his crucifixion, so we shall not debate this; but neither can a disciple of Yeshua take away all that is the basis of a believing salvation. Jewish believers of that time knew how he fulfilled the prophecies and that is the witness that survives the unbelief.
  3. This is the one that seems to be the basis for many of the arguments that Yeshua could not possibly be the messiah and it is the one that is the easiest to understand from a Jewish perspective; Isaiah 14, even Ahab the king did not believe it, so how would one expect his successors to? But Isaiah 53 is traced further back than Isaiah 52; the disciple goes back to chapters 48 and 49. Then the question: how does Zechariah say for the future: ["And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn"]; this will be a fact of the third Temple's dedication.
  4. The fourth assertion is the hardest, for at the first, the children of Israel DID NOT believe, and spent 40 years in the desert before Joshua, not Moses, began leading them into Canaan. Further, elsewhere it is asserted that some of the prophetic indications of messianic import is set out as being fulfilled in Israel. Yet, the messianic prophesies are mostly masculine in reference, where Israel is many times referred to in the feminine.

In the long run, as long as Scripture can be manipulated from a pure human perspective, the debate will never be solved in this mortal lifetime, as nearly two thousand years can attest to. Even as the Christian witness was compromised by such debating for almost six or seven hundred years, Islam found its way into the argument; and strangely, some of what is said there attempt to mimic the proposition of denying the validity of Yeshua's claim. That being said, like elsewhere, the proof is in the belief; judgment comes for unbelief.

Dislike
Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

Reader comments (78) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
"Jewish" as a religious identity? [42 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
YehuditNov 14, 2018 18:44245992
Church attendence and acceptance of Israel [101 words]Yechiel ShlipshonJan 2, 2017 16:20235065
What about Iranians? [27 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonAug 22, 2014 01:40217312
The main reason Christians support Israel [35 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dave CoenAug 19, 2014 19:08217261
3What does it matter? [97 words]saraAug 19, 2014 22:31217261
You're generalizing, Dave [55 words]Michael S.Aug 23, 2014 04:55217261
Judaism is incompatible with Christianity [38 words]BergAug 24, 2014 23:04217261
Understanding Judaism [97 words]Michael S.Aug 27, 2014 11:03217261
Israel needs more "Trojan Horses" [533 words]Michael S.Aug 31, 2014 18:56217261
If you think Judaism is that bad, Christianity is even worse [42 words]DanSep 2, 2014 14:47217261
Absolutes, divisions and taking things seriously [455 words]Michael S.Sep 3, 2014 20:56217261
Judaism & Christianity [470 words]Michael S.Sep 4, 2014 02:12217261
True Christianity Dependent Upon Jewish Roots - The WORD of the LORD [562 words]M. ToveySep 4, 2014 13:43217261
Jesus, Abraham and Israel [753 words]Michael S.Sep 9, 2014 04:28217261
If Yeshua was the messiah, he'd have proved it [347 words]Shlomo S.Sep 9, 2014 15:10217261
"Jews for Jesus" propaganda [34 words]JudithSep 11, 2014 11:38217261
Why people become Christians [955 words]Michael S.Sep 12, 2014 21:55217261
Michael S. I invite you to read the following article: [57 words]RabbiSep 15, 2014 14:54217261
Proof is in the Belief - Thousands of Believing Sons of Jacob Cannot All Be Wrong [523 words]M. ToveySep 15, 2014 19:25217261
1True Christians are called to Faith - Just as Jewish Believers [736 words]M. ToveySep 16, 2014 16:44217261
Thank you, Rabbi, for your comment. [336 words]Michael S.Sep 17, 2014 02:51217261
More on Christians, and support for Israel [897 words]Michael S.Sep 17, 2014 03:50217261
Yes, they can all be wrong [90 words]RabbiSep 17, 2014 14:22217261
And Why Again Could Yeshua Not Be the Messiah? [912 words]M. ToveySep 17, 2014 19:14217261
Historical proof [494 words]Michael S.Sep 18, 2014 06:06217261
Why All the Efforts to Find Wrong - Find the Love in the Right - In the Truth [522 words]M. ToveySep 18, 2014 14:25217261
RE: And Why Again Could Yeshua Not Be the Messiah? [92 words]RabbiSep 18, 2014 14:34217261
Christians and the Best Expressions for Judaism [484 words]M. ToveySep 18, 2014 19:15217261
A Rabbi? [39 words]saraSep 18, 2014 20:40217261
This has nothing to do with Jesus being, or not being, the Messiah [667 words]Michael S.Sep 19, 2014 03:29217261
The Two Wintesses [1139 words]Michael S.Sep 22, 2014 11:56217261
Religions and common sense -- not necessarily the same thing [45 words]Michael S.Sep 22, 2014 20:59217261
Actually-Proper Church Doctrine has Everything to do With Jesus as Messiah [1459 words]M. ToveySep 30, 2014 19:10217261
leading servants [51 words]m. langeOct 2, 2014 22:43217261
Have a meaningful Yom Kippur [538 words]Michael S.Oct 3, 2014 06:03217261
Catholic who believes in israel [150 words]CatholicFeb 8, 2015 21:18217261
Not true! [49 words]ColleenMay 31, 2015 20:40217261
Churches' political influence underestimated. [38 words]PermReaderAug 15, 2014 12:42217173
the role played by conformism (as well as cowardice) in the success of the Left in whitewashing Hamas, et al., in our time [812 words]Kenneth H. GreenAug 11, 2014 10:30217080
In a Conformist world, Israel's best friend is its nukes [432 words]Michael S.Aug 14, 2014 14:50217080
religious leanings [17 words]samAug 10, 2014 16:18217069
Not just church attendance, but the bible affects truth and attitudes, it is the book of knowledge and wisdom, past, present, and future. [159 words]AnneAug 9, 2014 14:48217028
Church Attendance and God's word affects American attitudes for Israel for sure! [279 words]AnneAug 9, 2014 14:33217027
Second Temple Replica Megachurch in Brazil [29 words]PezDispenserAug 9, 2014 10:39217013
1Christians Who Read The Old Testament Tend To Love Israel More [82 words]Lujack SkylarkAug 7, 2014 21:00216974
1Christians who read the Old Testament Tend to Love Israel more......response to Lujack Skylark [113 words]AnneAug 21, 2014 07:46216974
Predictions and Percentages [29 words]Michael s.Sep 22, 2014 21:09216974
How Church Attendance affects attitudes toward Isarel. Jesus was Jew..the true Messiah. Non believers come up short. [89 words]AnneSep 23, 2014 07:48216974
Matthew 24 didn't say much about these times. [1737 words]Michael S.Sep 25, 2014 21:26216974
Prophetic outline of things to come. You don't know the obvious times! [176 words]AnneSep 27, 2014 08:31216974
No need for compliments. [329 words]Michael S.Sep 30, 2014 11:40216974
The Duece You Say: Yeshua HaNazaret Meant Every WORD [979 words]M. ToveyOct 3, 2014 12:11216974
The Third Temple. Chag Sameach [1195 words]MIchael S.Oct 10, 2014 05:05216974
Ezekiel Ch 40, etc.: What the Church Should Expect; But Many Do Not [1017 words]M. ToveyOct 15, 2014 12:11216974
politics of masses [25 words]WarrenAug 7, 2014 11:03216964
Church attendance impact on Israel support [117 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jim TittsworthAug 6, 2014 22:41216837
Testing for a Commitment Towards Israel [285 words]M. ToveyAug 6, 2014 17:08216763
Israel and Biblical Christians [11 words]Clifford IshiiAug 6, 2014 15:28216736
1Exceptions which prove the rule? [235 words]Doug MayfieldAug 6, 2014 05:15216584
The only surprise is the change in US Jewish views [169 words]Michael S.Aug 6, 2014 01:03216558
Anti-Israel Jews are rewarded. [143 words]ToddAug 7, 2014 18:50216558
Above neck level [14 words]Michael SAug 12, 2014 15:27216558
Anti Semitism in San Francisco [20 words]Robin RosenblattAug 5, 2014 21:44216556
Arab-Israeli Debate in the USA [314 words]EmanuelAug 5, 2014 21:30216555
How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes Toward Israel [105 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JuithAug 5, 2014 20:05216553
1How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes toward Israel [20 words]steven LAug 5, 2014 20:00216552
Christian persecutipon [28 words]steven LAug 9, 2014 00:14216552
1A simple response to this article. [41 words]Gene C FowlerAug 5, 2014 19:26216551
1I am In total agreement with you on the truth! [160 words]AnneAug 9, 2014 15:01216551
Then how do you explain... [21 words]RealityAug 19, 2014 18:58216551
Israel and marriage [9 words]Jonathan T.Aug 20, 2014 13:02216551
Once again the minority of gays are 1.2%, maybe 10% worldwide. [111 words]AnneAug 21, 2014 07:33216551
Like most Israelis actually care [24 words]TheodorAug 22, 2014 13:52216551
Ironic [31 words]Paul SobekAug 22, 2014 16:31216551
That is the point...there is a day coming when all of Israel will be totally awakened. [25 words]AnneAug 25, 2014 10:20216551
Its called Love honey...Response to Paul Sobek [55 words]AnneAug 25, 2014 10:24216551
Interesting numbers [60 words]David W. LincolnAug 5, 2014 19:03216550
A caution re alleged "93% of Jews symphathize more with Israel" [52 words]MarkAug 5, 2014 17:33216549

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)