agenda and fact

Submitted by paulmhmurphy (Ireland), Dec 3, 2006 at 16:05

'Daniel' has contributed some interesting points to this discussion. However, he is mistaken in fact when he says that contributors who have had first-hand experience support the viewpoint of Dr Pipes. This just isn't so. All those whose information is first-hand share one fundamental disagreement with the author of the article - that contrary to his clear intention to portray the ZUS' as districts wherein the French state has ceded its authority to Islamic fundamentalists, the ZUS are merely designated urban-renewal zones.

Of course there are many ZUS containing a high proportion of immigrants from North Africa, Eastern Europe, and Sub-Saharan Africa. Nobody disputes that fact. However, what actually distinguishes these residential ZUS from prosperous France is something which will be familiar to Americans - urban alienation and deprivation. The indicators of early school-leaving age, poor or absent parenting, gangs, drugs and guns will also be familiar to Americans. Lack of religious observance rather than religious fundamentalism would also typify the people who live in these places. However, if there is one big difference with the US, It is not in the number of Moslems in the respective populations, but in the scale of the problem itself. In relation to every single indicator mentioned above, (and adding in illegitimacy, violent homicide, and rape), the US is in a completely different and worse league.

One thing is also clear. ZUS are very certainly policed. The most frequent complaints relate not to the absence of policing, but to the alleged over-policing of the poorer suburbs of large French cities - and the often over-enthusiasm of the police in the use of firearms.

As for Moslems in France, they have crime rates which are typical of their relative ecomomic status. Interestingly, Moslems in both France and the US tend not to have become radicalized (as distinct from Moslems in the UK) . In fact, the one common denominator connecting most of the very few French citizens who have become involved with Al Qaeda and the like is that they became radicalized abroad - usually in the UK.

One interesting and quirky statistic: families of Observant Catholics, Observant Moslems, and Orthodox Jews in France all display similar birth-rates which are significantly higher than their apostate co-religionists.

Caveat lector, Daniel. ...

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