Moshe: Perspective?

Submitted by Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan (United Kingdom), Dec 5, 2006 at 22:00

Thank you, Moshe, for your rational, objective insights and unfailing ability to miss the point from behind the blinding fog of your bigotry.

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Submitted by Moshe, Dec 5, 2006 at 08:55

"You are back in your cozy track of inventing fascinating historic "facts" for supporting your untenable arguments."

- Presumably this is an oblique reference to my earlier assertion that rather than whinging about the 90% of Palestine that Israrel didn't get she should be grateful to the British for the 10% that you did get as a result of their, not the Jewish, defeat of the Turks and the remapping, admittedly cackhanded, of the region as a whole by the British, French & Russians.

Your rebuttal?

"Submitted by Moshe, Dec 2, 2006 at 14:56

Stupid me, I always used to think that this land was given since ancient times to the Jewish people by the Lord and Creator of the Universe."

-My! That really undermined the point!

My 'invention' of historic fact should presumably be easy enough to shoot down without the need to invoke a divinity. Invention generally is. At least it would be if the allegation had any basis in reality.

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Submitted by Moshe, Dec 5, 2006 at 08:55

"Or is it again just one of your "bright" baseless inferences thrown in for the sake of the argument?"

- Words to live by, Moshe! If only you were capable of following your own advice! I shall, however, take a leaf out of your book and invoke some biblical anecdotes

- The New Testament recounts the stoning of Stephen (Acts 6:8-7:60) by the members of the Sanhedrin. Stephen is remembered in Christianity as the first martyr (derived from the Greek word "martyros" which means "witness"). Stephen's execution was followed by a major persecution of Christians (Acts 8:1-3), led by a Pharisee named Paul of Tarsus (also called Saul), throwing many Christians into prison.- During the famous Bar Kochba Rebellion of AD 135, Christians refused to fight, as a result of which, according to Justin Martyr, they were "commanded to be punished severely, if they did not deny Jesus as the Messiah and blaspheme him."[1]

Then we have the famous 'blood curse' of the Matthew's biblical Gospel...........

When Pilate saw that he could not prevail, but rather that a tumult was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just person. See ye to it." Then answered all the people and said, "His blood be on us, and on our children!" (KJV)

When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. "I am innocent of this man's blood," he said. "It is your responsibility!" All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!" (NIV)

So when Pilate saw that he could do nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took some water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood; see to it yourselves." Then the people as a whole answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!" (NRSV)

When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see to that yourselves." And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!" (NASB)

When Pilate saw that he was not succeeding at all, but that a riot was breaking out instead, he took water and washed his hands in the sight of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood. Look to it yourselves." And the whole people said in reply, "His blood be upon us and upon our children." (NAB)
None of the above has any less basis in historical fact than your feeble assertion that "

- Is it unreasonable of me to use the Bible to back up my 'inventions'. Not if the following is anything to go by!

"Submitted by Moshe, Dec 2, 2006 at 14:56

Stupid me, I always used to think that this land was given since ancient times to the Jewish people by the Lord and Creator of the Universe."

Does the definition of the word 'hypocrite' sound justified to anybody other than me? I'm not a Christian, as difficult as that will be for you to believe, nor am I Muslim, Hindu or Jew. But it does seem absurd that Mel Gibson could be forced to remove the Blood Curse from his movie on the grounds of anti-semitism yet for it to remain in the Bible proper without a concerted effort to remove such anti-semitism. Ah, the good old US of A! Kings of the double standard!

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Submitted by Moshe, Dec 5, 2006 at 08:55

For your learned information, Christianity couldn't have existed before the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE by the Roman rulers when the last traces of Jewish sovereignty in their land was crushed.

- I'm sure you're correct. There clearly weren't any Christians around at the time of Christ or during the 70 years after his crucifiction. It seems perfectly logical that there was no such religion until well after the Jewish sovereignty of their land was terminated. I'm only surprised that you have not taken this point a step further and argued that Christ didn't actually emerge on the scene until well after that time! That would be extremely convenient.

- But wait a minute! Hang on! I'm confused. Didn't you just assert that "this land was given since ancient times to the Jewish people by the Lord and Creator of the Universe." How could it be taken away by an earthly entity, ie, The Romans, who clearly weren't God's 'chosen people'? Did he give it to them, then take it away, then give it back? You see the danger in introducing theological rebuttals in the absence of a rational argument? Probably not. I think that that ship sailed and left you behind a long, long, time ago.

Libelling the Christian religion and labelling all Europeans and their American & Austrailian relatives as part of a co-ordinated engine that collectively engineered the Holocaust only serves to highlight just how isolated and intellectually bankrupt your viewpoint is. I quite frankly regard you as being as ideologically warped as the Muslim radicals who are generally on the receiving end of criticism for sporting a very similar chip that you wear on your shoulder.

There is very little difference between that kind of generalisation and the application of the racial slurs that have been thrown at the Jews over the years. Does the one example make the other example o.k? The idea that the Nazis were motivated by 'christian zeal' is a very new one and one that is generally expounded by Muslims trying to drive a wedge between Christian & Jew. Divide and conquer. You clearly labour under the belief that we're all out to 'get you'............................

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Submitted by Moshe, Dec 5, 2006 at 08:55

"Sword, you are absolutely right, you better GET SOME CORRECT PERSPECTIVE!"

You undoubtedly mean YOURS. Too warped for me but thanks for the advice! Sounds a little too fascist for my tastes.

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Submitted by Moshe, Dec 5, 2006 at 08:55

AND SIX MILLION JEWS WERE DELIBERATELY MURDERED IN AN UNPRECEDENTED PREPLANNED INDUSTRIAL GENOCIDE ONLY BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWS!

- By whom were the unfortunate survivors liberated? Ben-Gurion?

My only relief is that you haven't labelled me a 'Holocaust Denier' so I guess I should be thankful for small mercies.

And you quite clearly hold all of Europe (whom, like the Muslims, you seem to think are motivated entirely by religion) and, by definition, the United States, (who only joined in the war after Germany declared war on them and that somewhat belatedly), as well as Austrailia and everywhere else that has a colonial past. Let's not forget the South American states that sheltered so many war criminals or the US & Russian militaries who so benefited from Nazi science. Obviously the Arabs aren't great friends either so the world must seem like a very lonely place to you. Presumably, given your bleak opinion of us all you wouldn't dream of having the audacity to live anywhere but in Israel. That would be rank hypocrisy indeed but I hardly think that you, of all people, would be guilty of such a thing!

Contrary to your probable belief on this subject I have zero ill-will towards Jews or to Israel. You do your cause very few favours. You have a very similar mindset to the Muslim extremist and by definition are equally dangerous! Hence my eternal enmity.

Rather than calling upon your God or labeling anything that you disagree with as a lie you may well find that you receive considerably more respect if you avoid making a point in cases when you clearly have no point, just bile.

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