Wassim and History

Submitted by Wassim (United Kingdom), Jan 24, 2007 at 06:44

I just read your comments and frankly I don't know where to start. I know you can read because clearly you've attempted a response to each of my points. No problem, if you can't engage those points I'll deal with you on a level youre comfortable with.

OK, we'll start at the point where you started to stumble (the beginning). Firstly, you're talking about extremist Islam and say you are against it. Sure, I'm against it too, but I'm a Muslim and I can differentiate between my faith and that of al Qaeda. It seems you haven't done so yet which is a real shame because it might give more balance and credibility to your arguments if you did. As for the no-brainer, well in my opinion it's a no brainer that Palestine should be liberated. The fact that you regurgitate phrases such as "right to defend itself" really shows me how shallow your argument is going to be.

You also seem to know nothing about these Arab countries you accuse of being Totalitarian. I suggest you go visit one, dare I say even Syria and mix with real people there. It's tourist friendly, you're not going to get your head or hands chopped off etc. I also suggest you avoid lumping all Arab or Islamic countries in one big chunk as most of those who share your opinions do.

My point on Jerusalem, you're implication by saying "invaded" was that it was under a legitimate ownership in the first place. That is not the case and I hoped you'd understand that rather than giving a statement from the department of the bleeding obvious.

As for your point, I don't unwittingly state anything, though you have missed much. The point you and many other Western sofa politicans and web warriors seem to miss is that the area in question has seen many from Philistines, Egyptians, Jews, Greeks, Romans, Persians and Arabs all controlling it at some stage. The very people that Israel has displaced are the descendants of these people. You can't comprehend that the Arabs and the Jews are the same peoples, that their religions are extremely similar and that in the grand narrative of these religions, it is the Islamic which has inherited the vast tradition and legacy of the Abrahamic faith. The conflict is one based on the infection of rabid nationalism and inhuman persecution of the Jews in Europe and their response to these things with something called Zionism...

The Pan-Arab issue, yes I proudly say it is. If anything I do believe in Pan Arabism. Considering the nation states of the current Middle East were spun into being with decolonization I'm not surprised that the Palestinian issue was created "after" the Zionist usurpation of Palestine. You still miss the point that though you allege their identity as Palestinians was manufactured, they were still refugees and a refugee is one who no longer lives on his land and has sought refuge elsewhere. Please try to focus.

Yes, I did not deny the Yom Kippur War and I don't know why you bring this up again. You've really got to engage in this discussion if we're going to move forward. Zionism has conquered the only country that matters to the Arabs, Palestine. That is still the issue as Pilger said. What about conquest? You want me to answer for men who died thousands of years ago? How many countries did your precious Western civilization conquer and please lets not mention the slave trade shall we? (forget it, I'm not even going to bother engaging with this point).

This tombstone thing I can see you are quite happy with and won't let go. OK so somebody defiled some tombstones. My point is that this is not the institutionalised religious view of Islam against Judaism, my point was to show that such actions are not religious. What I did want to know genuinely was where did you read that this happened? Who made this claim and how can I read it? That is why you have to always state your sources. Nice quote from Nasser and yes the point has never been about letting the Zionists get away with their occupation, nor will it ever be. Also, please do follow the news as I think you might actually like the PLO (Fatah) and their new found identity. I'll let this one pass.

Moving on..your last point before the lengthy quotation is also not engaging with the point I made. I know it's difficult for you to actually engage in a conversation that challenges your existing point of view and diverts you from your standard polemic. I'm sorry I didn't add the recompensed sense for Jewish refugees from the Arab world but I think it's a statement of the bleeding obvious I meant it in the same sense as that of Palestinians.

As for territory. Yes you would resort to an example from the animal world but you miss the point that Israels borders themselves are refused by myself and most Arabs. Of course Israel will be on the defensive in any war. It's aggression is done and now the repercussions would inevitably follow. I expect Israel will have to resort to many other acts of "self defence" until it abandons Zionism.

I left you a little olive branch in my last paragraph which I was hoping you'd have the sharp eyes to spot. Unfortunately you've trampled on it in your juggernaught perspective on a region of the world which is my homeland. Remember, any concessions made by the Arab countries are just that, it is only Israeli and American military might (arguably) which makes Israel exist. If you keep holding a weight up vertically, you're arm will eventually get tired and drop, the same is with Israel. Finally, I am proud to be animated by the Islamic belief in the equality of all men, "you are just stupid enough to think that is an insult " (Denzel Washington used that line and you've finally given me the opportunity to use it. So thanks!).

PS. My point regarding accurate, historical and useful sources. Please do read works by scholars such as Fred Halliday, Edward Said, Albert Hourani, Maxime Rodinson etc. it's hard for you because there are no pictures and they aren't on the web, but I think you can find them in a library (a place where you can borrow books to read). I think quoting from someone like Lawrence Auster speaks for itself and tells me a bit about the foundations of your knowledge. Please, if you're going to talk about something then at least make the effort to read genuine scholarly work that is properly referenced and researched, not demagogic and polemical....

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