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A LIBERAL RESPONDS TO MR. AS- Emotional responses are not logical, nor productive in problem solving.

Reader comment on item: Two Palestines, Anyone?
in response to reader comment: to Chris G, the researcher and social scientist, and oh! the liberal

Submitted by Chris G. (United States), Jun 26, 2007 at 01:38

Again I forgive you for trying to delegitimize me by making fun of me. You are greatly distorting what I said sir. What I advocate is understanding the world view and belief systems of Islamic extremists in order to understand their primary motivations. This requires dialog with extremists if you truly wish to understand them. I know it works because I have done it on public forums with people others had judged to be impossible to talk to. It is all a matter of understanding HOW to talk to them.

The more religious they are, the easier it is to do this actually. The less religious, emotionally and politically driven ones are the most difficult to deal with. Some you simply can not have dialog with. I also have no problems seeing terrorists hunted down and killed or arrested if done in a precise and accurate manner. What I am advocating however is encouraging and training military and police forces in ISLAMIC countries on how to do this in the name of Islam and backing it up with traditional Islamic theology. This is not the first time in Islamic history that mainstream Muslims have fought and wiped out radical extremists. That goes way back to the defeat of the Kharjite extremists early in Islamic history.

If America and Israel are the only ones fighting terrorists significantly and give the finger to all the Muslims who otherwise hate extremists, we look like we are attacking their religion because we are also blatantly and openly calling even peaceful Muslims (who are trying to do the right thing) terrorists. This, my friend, provides fertile recruiting ground for terrorists and only strengthens Islamic extremism. Once this reaches a crisis point, there is no turning back. Genocide becomes the only option as these Islamic nations develop nuclear weapons. I am 100% in support of preventing ANY new countries from attaining nuclear weapons technology.

Yes this includes Iran. The more countries have nukes, the greater the chance that some idiot will use them (especially radical idiots like Iran's President who by the way is hated by most Iranians).

What is frustrating is that you are refusing to give a point by point logical critique and instead you are using the debate strategy of destroying my argument by simply making fun of me using emotional based rhetoric. Some readers may love that and give you a big thumbs up. The more mature serious analysts however I hope will see that you end up looking immature and irrational doing that. I really wish you would put aside your emotions and seriously think about whether what I advocate is possible in a serious manner.

If you wish to critique my methodology as a social scientist, I can go into great detail into my exact methodology. But I must ask you what experience do you have studying the social sciences? What are your credentials? I DO NOT compare social science with mathematical sciences. That is comparing apples and oranges even though they are both fruit with a few similarties. The study of humans can not be broken down into ones and zeroes (at least not at this stage in science). Some of human behavioral studies can be quantified with statistical research. However, statistics alone can be misleading if the data put into it is faulty and other variables are not accounted for. This is a massive problem in quasi-experimental research.

Good anthropological research involves understanding such factors as politics, sociological factors, psychological factors, economic factors, religious factors, historical factors, environmental factors, geographic factors, cultural factors, etc… in a broad holistic manner. It involves careful sampling and research methodology in order to insure that target populations are representative of broader populations. It involves developing a network of informants along with key informants through which to check the validity of both research questions (by doing pre-testing) as well as by checking the answers received by informants to identical questions in order to measure validity.

Now, I am not saying that my research methodology is perfect. There are certainly weaknesses in it and I am definitely open to those criticisms. However this is buffered partly by the results of my experimental methods of dialog and other research on terrorist reform programs and on former extremists who have rejected terrorist type Islamic ideologies. So please don't tell me that anyone can do such research. You have no idea how demanding it is academically.

You may very well have a PhD in one of the logic oriented sciences such as engineering, chemistry, etc… However that does not mean you are an expert in cultural anthropology. You will not find me trying to argue and debate engineering or chemistry as I am ignorant of those fields aside from the very basics. Likewise, unless you have expertise in cultural anthropology and its methodologies, it is not wise to critique a field that you are ignorant of.

My own credentials are as follows:
I have a B.A. in Psychology and I am in the final stages of my graduate research in cultural anthropology. I have lived in and traveled to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, and Indonesia. I have spent years working with local Islamic communities. I have spent long hours in their mosques. I have attended several Islamic seminars. I have talked to many scholars from all Islamic maddhabs (schools of thought).

I am a former US Army Reserve soldier (experienced in a variety of weaponry and infantry tactics) and my area of research is in peace and conflict anthropology specifically in Islamic theology and alternative methods of counter-terrorism. My current research proposal has also been approved by members of the intelligence and military communities including one of the former J2's (Head of Intelligence) of the U.S. Airforce who has been helping me shop my research proposals around for further funding and program developments.

At the same time my research is not unethical and has been approved by various Islamic Imams and scholars as being highly supportive of traditional Islamic values. With that said, I do not seek necessarily to person by person convince every single terrorist personally that they are bad people and need to repent to Allah. You are right, that is silly and not practical. What I propose is using mass media to counter Al-Qaeda propaganda using traditional Islamic theology…. Theology which you absolutely refuse to acknowledge.

Instead what you and other neo-conservatives are doing here is SUPPORTING AL-QAEDA THEOLOGY.
That my friend makes my job EXTREMELY difficult especially when key members of the Bush administration listen to these arguments and dismiss those of traditional Muslim who are fighting against extremism. With no support, many such moderate Muslims may just throw up their arms and not even bother and just leave it to Allah when both sides (American neoconservatives and Islamic extremists) are attacking them.

So what I am saying is that neoconservatives are sending VERY mixed messages to the Islamic world. It does not surprise me in the least bit either, that there are Muslims responding on this site that are agreeing with your view of Islam. I guarantee you that when I question them (if they bother responding) as to what Shaykhs they follow as spiritual leaders, that their Shaykhs are followers of Sayeed Qutb, known radical Wahabbi/Salafi Shaykhs, or deviant Deobandi Shaykhs (although there are many legitimate and very good Deobandi scholars). Then you have the Shi'a radicals which are a whole other bunch of mixed nuts who follow very different paradigms of interpretation but who often share much in common with Sunni radicals in their methodology.

Within Shi'a Islam you also have a bunch of different schools of thoughts as well ranging from very moderate and liberal all the way to fanatical millenialists as well as those who are influenced by Sunni Wahhabi ideologies. A good overview of Shi'a Islam can be found in the book "The Shia Revival" by Vali Nasr, a professor at the Naval Post-graduate school who specializes in Middle East and South Asia politics. It is well written and not a difficult read.

Once you begin to understand the complexity and variety of Islamic beliefs and their relationship to current events, history, culture, and economics, you then begin to figure out how to solve the problem of Islamic extremism. If you believe I am wrong, then please by all means come up with superior data and methodology for ending the war on terror short of genocide.

By the way, I also AM NOT some blind supporter of Nancy Pelosi. Why you keep bringing her up on different posts is beyond me. I disagree with her on MANY issues. She went to Syria very naively and without a strong understanding of how Middle East politics works. Believe it or not but I spend a good deal of time debating just as passionately with the radical left in this country. On some issues I am fairly liberal, on other issues more conservative. That is why I call myself a moderate. I like to look at all sides of an issue in order to understand the complexity of an issue before coming to some ideas about a solution.

Finally…. If you have bothered to read this far, I hope that you will relax and think critically and logically about the points I make. I'm not expecting you to and probably you will give a three sentence response calling me a terrorist lover or a commie. But I hope that maybe you will surprise me and give me some good critical logical arguments rather then just emotional ones.

Chris G.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (100) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Correction: 3 Palestines: [26 words]M EAug 18, 2007 19:16106493
Palestinian Shell Game [245 words]DebbieJul 17, 2007 16:26103866
Poor Mickey Mouse [78 words]BlackspeareJul 5, 2007 20:42103056
Islamist Mental Disability [185 words]YnnatchkahJul 3, 2007 02:44102497
Good [2 words]JoeAug 16, 2013 10:02102497
Gaza, the new Sudetenland redux [74 words]Jorgen GoderstadJun 27, 2007 12:37101773
Gaza Strip-tease [136 words]Thomas Justin KazeJun 26, 2007 02:11101313
both hamas and fatah wish to see Israel destroyed [121 words]Phil GreendJun 25, 2007 21:26101164
Shut down the "Mosques.! [40 words]Tony DinesJul 25, 2007 20:16101164
Poll Shows Palestinians want Israel "occupying" Gaza Again. [447 words]YnnatchkahJun 25, 2007 02:44100990
I really have to laugh [74 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 2, 2007 02:47100990
You are right, Seamus MacNemi [37 words]YnnatchkahJul 2, 2007 21:36100990
Atificial state [245 words]DallasJun 24, 2007 23:14100984
Great summary [64 words]Salomon BenzimraJun 23, 2007 23:05100586
Fantasy land [121 words]arthurJun 22, 2007 15:04100387
Strange Bedfellows II [103 words]BlackspeareJun 22, 2007 10:01100360
Strange Bedfellows? [82 words]BlackspeareJun 21, 2007 08:58100038
Two Palestines, Anyone? [57 words]S.C.PandaJun 21, 2007 05:3399917
Two Palestines, Anyone? [826 words]Ed Melik, Esq.Jun 23, 2007 01:1599917
Pipes points were vindicated [255 words]Amitabh TripathiJun 21, 2007 03:5399909
Two Palestines, Anyone? [3898 words]Ed Melik, Esq.Jun 21, 2007 03:1499906
Palestinians are Sowing what they Reaped [273 words]Mel LarawayJun 23, 2007 15:2999906
Dear Ed Melik, Esq., why did you leave out Egypt from this puzzle? [307 words]MosheJun 24, 2007 04:4399906
Ed Melik's rewrites history [703 words]InfidelJun 24, 2007 15:0599906
Palestinians are reaping what they sowed [153 words]MosheJun 24, 2007 15:1899906
perpetual refugees.. [72 words]donvanJun 25, 2007 11:3499906
No more blame game, enough with the violence [523 words]Bryan JacksonJun 26, 2007 21:5699906
Two Palestines, anyone? [614 words]Ed Melik, Esq.Jul 1, 2007 14:5099906
That's quite a schpiel Mr. Malik [180 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 2, 2007 03:5999906
Hamas & Fatah; Confusing the European Elite [90 words]David P.Jun 20, 2007 23:5199864
Actually, that would be three "Palestines" now [6 words]DanJun 20, 2007 14:1199675
Actually, it is four Palestinian States [175 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2007 16:0299675
Yuval, please don't try to scare us. [261 words]MosheJun 25, 2007 15:2299675
Baruch haShem, eh Moishe? [17 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 2, 2007 04:2799675
Nobody wants a Palestinian State in the Middle East--except George Bush [702 words]Martin KesslerJun 20, 2007 11:5799667
Here We Go Again [125 words]BlackspeareJun 20, 2007 11:3299665
1poor Israeli Jews will be sandwiched between Islamic Jehad , Muslim Fatah and Jehadi Hamas ! [97 words]ConcernsJun 20, 2007 09:5099646
Hamas, Fata, Islami Jihad, Hezbolla - All jumping and screaming because they are not afraid of Israel [147 words]James BurkeJun 20, 2007 20:3599646
ok right... [70 words]Hamri Al-AssadJun 21, 2007 21:5899646
Why are you jealous of Israel Money and Resources [44 words]HirooJun 23, 2007 06:3999646
Send Jimmy [85 words]LDCJun 20, 2007 08:1099634
Would Mr Pipes or readers help me clarify these questions? Thank you! [265 words]TammyJun 20, 2007 02:2999612
'Palestinian Roulette' - Opinion for Tammy - Who's on First. [597 words]M. ToveyJun 20, 2007 16:3699612
Tammy - a few thoughts [562 words]PatJun 20, 2007 16:5699612
Tammy's Questions [264 words]LDCJun 20, 2007 17:1599612
To LDC [237 words]TammyJun 22, 2007 04:0899612
To Pat. [317 words]TammyJun 22, 2007 04:3399612
To M. Tovey [262 words]TammyJun 22, 2007 04:4299612
Sick of war but have no other choice than to fight and hopefufly to finish the job this time [163 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 2, 2007 21:5799612
To Seamus MacNemi [135 words]TammyJul 22, 2007 12:2699612
Fatah and Hamas: Flip Sides of Same Arab Imperialism and Genocidalism [585 words]G. MarcusJun 19, 2007 23:2799602
Gardens in the desert - I think not [226 words]David W. LincolnJun 19, 2007 23:0699597
ONLY SOLUTION: GAZA TO EGYPT; WEST BANK PARTITIONED WITH JORDAN [232 words]MGJun 19, 2007 21:4099581
Idiots in The US Executive Branch [58 words]Ralph C Whaley MDJun 19, 2007 20:0399567
Yes and No [290 words]john w mcginleyJun 19, 2007 18:1299553
two palestines? [120 words]ralph shapiroJun 19, 2007 17:1899550
Shades Of Noam Chomsky [112 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 2, 2007 22:3099550
Abbas/Hamas=peace/schmeece [134 words]Michele Solomon FrynckoJun 19, 2007 16:1199539
Tactics, anyone? [138 words]Jascha KesslerJun 19, 2007 16:1099538
Cutting off water and electricity = bad idea [124 words]Chris G.Jun 21, 2007 14:1799538
A LIBERAL RESPONDS!!!! The Danger of Generalizing Fatah and Hamas [1115 words]Chris G.Jun 19, 2007 15:5499535
No U turns. [77 words]MWJun 21, 2007 10:5699535
to Chris G, the researcher and social scientist, and oh! the liberal [117 words]ASJun 25, 2007 02:4099535
A LIBERAL RESPONDS TO MR. AS- Emotional responses are not logical, nor productive in problem solving. [1598 words]Chris G.Jun 26, 2007 01:3899535
to Chris G [650 words]ASJun 27, 2007 01:5899535
SIR, I have thoroughly enjoyed your presentation here. [134 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 2, 2007 23:3899535
The Folly of Supporting Fatah and Abbas [35 words]Martin E. WeinsteinJun 19, 2007 15:5299534
Two 'Palestines?' Not Likely! [545 words]M. ToveyJun 19, 2007 15:4199533
2 Palestines, anyone [115 words]Steven LJun 19, 2007 15:3899532
Why is Israel doing what it is doing? [82 words]freemanJun 19, 2007 14:3099520
freeman, Israel is defending themselves [108 words]InfidelJun 19, 2007 15:0999520
How to differentiate between a Moderate Terrorist and Militant Terrorist ?? Any suggestion / explanation Mr.Pipes ? [165 words]ThokarJun 20, 2007 09:4199520
Sometimes doing nothing helps [98 words]freemanJun 20, 2007 21:4299520
idiot savant [167 words]jan lapterJun 19, 2007 14:1399515
Hamas Putsch Indeed Irrelevant [276 words]Lonely in KabulJun 19, 2007 14:0599514
Fatah and Hamas [109 words]Donald W. BalesJun 19, 2007 14:0299512
Israelis: Infested with Suicidal LIberalism [277 words]James BurkeJun 20, 2007 08:0799512
A Blast of Fresh Air - How to Build on It? [800 words]Ron ThompsonJun 19, 2007 13:4599510
HAMAS gunmen [85 words]Erkhum MustafaJun 19, 2007 13:0799505
Agreed [216 words]davidJun 19, 2007 12:5599504
Terrorists in the pay of? [85 words]pigfootJun 19, 2007 12:3299503
Two Palestinians [211 words]Ernie LofthouseJun 19, 2007 12:2699502
The difference between Hamas and Fatah - in feet [173 words]Mladen AndrijasevicJun 19, 2007 14:3099502
Penalty [51 words]true believerJun 20, 2007 04:1799502
Fatah: 'We will continue to strike any place, targeting their children as well..' [394 words]NiagaraDec 26, 2021 19:4199502
Not a bad assessment Dr, Pipes, but one thing I have to point out [153 words]Bryan JacksonJun 19, 2007 11:1599496
Two or Twenty Palestines [76 words]ErnieJun 19, 2007 10:4999495
Moderates Malaysians and Islamists Talibaan united in chanting " Destroy Britain " [387 words]PanchoJun 20, 2007 09:4499495
One Palestine - from the river to the sea [280 words]PatJun 19, 2007 10:4299492
Two Palestines Anyone [17 words]Steve GureJun 19, 2007 10:3899490
WHAT ABOUT 2 ISRAELI STATES? [103 words]LEOJun 19, 2007 10:2399363
Both deadly to Israel's cause [39 words]John MorrisJun 19, 2007 10:1999361
Question for all US Presidents and YOU! [44 words]W WalkerJun 19, 2007 09:3299359
People only understand when their close member loses his life in Islamist Terror Attack [39 words]BaioirusJun 20, 2007 09:5699359
two factions [196 words]true believerJun 19, 2007 09:2199357
Where do all those M16's come from [44 words]Steven HessJun 19, 2007 09:1699355
Double standards will only make US weaker ! [20 words]NickJun 20, 2007 10:0099355
Age [132 words]MartyrMakerJun 19, 2007 09:1299354
Reply to Martyr Maker [13 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 3, 2007 21:1299354
one Palestine [48 words]samyJun 19, 2007 07:5699349

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