reply to fellow poster

Submitted by mark (United States), Apr 30, 2008 at 08:24

I have some comments below on a previous poster's submission (my comments are in bold):

..I must say that what he purports to be false apologist teachings with regards to Jihad (i.e. an inner struggle for closeness with Allah) is EXACTLY what I have been taught about Jihad and that it is never permissible to engage in fighting under Jihad unless it is defensive, NEVER offensive.

Why is what you have been taught relevant? What DOES the KORAN actually say and what is the example of Muhammad's life and his early followers? Kill, kill, kill. All of this stuff about the greater jihad being an internal jihad is one quote from the sayings of your prophet. His sayings, the Sunna, have lower status than the Koran, believed to the dictation of the angel Gabriel.

In fact, I have been taught that the Prophet, bpuh, expressly prohibited, in the Quran, compulsion of religion, any religion, to the point that he entered into treaties with those who were not Muslims in an effort to maintain peace. Further, I have been taught that the Quran, by itself, is where answers about Islam are to be found, it needs no supplements when approached with the intent to contextually understand its meaning, as opposed to, seeking to make it mean what the readers desires for it to mean. This you can do even with the Bible. Slave Owners used the bible to justify the institution. Again, taking completely out of context.

Mr. Pipes has quoted many "experts" but, as a muslim, I find his experts suspect, at least from my experience here in America. I am not a member of CAIR. I do, however, believe that religion is a relation between God and Man, regardless of the religion. Much like Evangelicals, it is the duty of Muslims, to bring people to what we identify as being the truth. That does not suggest violence.

Pipes generally quotes the Koran not experts.

Why did muhammad kill so many people in his life? He ordered an eighty year old female poet who was making fun of him killed in Mecca. He killed unarmed captives after battle. He took his son in law's wife, he had sex with an eight year old. He ethnically cleansed nonmuslims from Arabia? This is a "prophet"?

I think that commentaries... will serve to twist perception about Islam in such a way that Middle Eastern Muslim's begin to perceive that "Islam" is under attack. If that be the belief, if they feel as if the religion is under attack, then the Muslims there are COMPELLED to fight until the threat exist no more. Until their oppressor, so to speak, no longer poses a threat to them. When peace is offered, they must cease fighting. THAT is what the Quran teaches.

Exactly. Basically, this is why Islam has had so much trouble with the notion of rationality and free speech. This is why Muslims have such a poor track record in dealing with nonmuslims. Explain to me why I give you religious rights and why those are not extended to a bullied and butchered population of dhimmis in the Muslim World? This is why William Penn, a pioneer in global religious liberty did not think that Muslims were capable of living in America as citizens while they were muslims. You can't win a verbal argument because the facts of mohammed's life speak for themself, so you have to kill people who mention the koranic facts about what an evil tyrant he was.

There is nothing that Mr. Pipes or any other blogged "intellectual" writer can say to sway my perception of my religion and my personal relationship with the Creator. ...

You've already said you are an african american muslim -- it is not surprising that you would be incapable of proceeding with a rational debate. You probably embraced the religion during your "radical chic" phase as a way of differentiating yourself from the "man" without doing any heavy lifting. You obviously don't know much about your own religion. Perhaps if you get around to reading what you purport to be your holy text, you will note that it conflicts with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, probably democracy itself. If upon reflection, you really want to be a muslim and live in a muslim society, why are you here in the US? Why don't you immigrate to the muslim paradises of Mogadishu, Riyadh, Karachi, Northern Nigeria, or Iran? The fact that you don't leads me to believe that you want to suck at the fruits of western democracy but have radical chic.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".