objective fact - Islamic societies in general are backward

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), May 13, 2009 at 06:45

Mr. Javed (pbuh) writes:

"Your arguments are so value-laden that they do not require much to ripe them apart."
Isn't anything you are going to write about the wonderful world of dar Al Islam value-laden
- no matter how cleverly you try and disguise it as being objective ?
If you look at what I said they are not really arguments at all .
They are obvious points which you can't really refute and still appear coherent to any readers..
Any reasonable person, who does not wear Islamic coloured glasses can clearly see
Islamic countries in the main exist at a primitive level and are fraught with social problems.In many corruption is rife.
Most of them are beset by poverty and lack systems and freedoms which were hard fought
for in the West - but which we nevertheless take for granted.

Muslim cultures have nothing to offer technologically - and socially - despite what you might like us to believe - the lack of freedom , democracy and pluralism is abhorrent to western thinking.

"... You speak from a certain perspective ..."

and you don't?

"... but you need to understand Islam first to be on same page with me."
Thanks for the kindly advice but I don't need to be on the same page with you
I (and many,many others) understand enough of Islam to say 'nein danke'.
It has NOTHING to offer which other religions offer - but it also offers a system which no-one wants.

" I am sure you will find your brain full before you open your mouth."
And here's my prediction - you will pigeonhole people without knowing anything about them.
You can suggest I am full of my own opinions and do not listen to valid arguments, but, no
I'm quite rational and readily admit when I am wrong. Something it has become quickly apparent that Muslims find terribly hard to do - because they already now everything, right?

"One simple question.Why does the west fear the growth of Islam? "
First - one simple question to you - why have you not refuted any of the points made previously
- in my posts or the posts of other writers.
In relation to your question just asked - I cannot speak for the West. As for me, it has nothing to do with fear and I know no-one who actually fears Islam. It is just another cult and having said that, Scientology actually makes more sense!

To me your 'religion' is spurious - your so-called prophet is no more a prophet than you or I and just looking at the mess most Muslim countries are in - it has hindered rather than helped the people who have become infected with it. It claims itself as supreme - yet clearly it is not. If I was forced to adopt any religion - it would be the last one to take up. Christ had this piece of advice about people offering you take up their beliefs - 'ye shall know them by their fruits' . And here's nothing particularly appealing or delectable about the Islamic offering.

It lacks clarity and rationality and has very little in common with all the other major world religions.
Buddhist precepts make sense , Islamic precepts lead to an increase in ego and division.
But as I've noted, Sufism is probably the best form of Islam to adopt - because it stresses direct inner experience of the Source as far as I understand it.

Of course being in India you will have heard of Kabir - who was born to Muslim parents.
You will no doubt have read this poem of his:

"SERVANT, where dost thou seek Me ? Lo ! I am beside thee.
I am neither in temple nor in mosque :
I am neither in Kaaba nor in Kailash :
Neither am I in rites and ceremonies,
nor in Yoga and renunciation.
If thou art a true seeker,
thou shalt at once see Me : thou shalt meet Me
in a moment of time. Kabir says,
" O Sadhu ! God is the breath of all breath."

He is 100% right.
Your religion is a distraction from the true path.
But you don't reliase it.

"How do you look at the kind of weapon that are used in Afghanistan and Iraq?"
Ak47's, Cemtex , IED's , B1B's ? which weapons - on both sides or are you just singling out the Infidels for special mention?

"Do you remember the way the current USA was formed?"
I wasn't there to see all the dramas and sacrifices people made to get it to be the most powerful nation on earth. But it's hardly relevant seeing we live now - not 200 + years ago. Today's world is the one we live in and which we have to live in.
Be here now. But , guessing where you're going - do you remember what happens when there is not a balance
in the world to keep dictators from being in absolute control? Political or religious dictators.

"Do you justify what is happening to around the world to Muslims?"
'Do I answer rhetorical questions?' would be a better question.
Do you mean the 250,000+ Muslims in Darfur who have been slaughtered and starved recently by other Muslims, or the Muslims in the Iran/Iraq war?Or the Muslims in Iraq fighting Muslim Iraqi Government forces - or the Pakstani Muslim government forces - fighting the Taliban?
Or Afghani government forces fighting taliban in that country? Or the Hamas muslims killing the Fatah muslims? Just which Muslims are you trying to win a sympathy vote for ? Muslims around the world bring these problems on themselves. You are familiar with the non-Islamic idea of 'karma' no doubt. Or 'as ye sow, so shall ye reap' .
And the conflict Musklims experience is in no small amount due to the divisive 'us' & 'them' attitude promulgated by your little green book. You already believe you have the supreme religion. Yet totally fail to reqalise what it's all about - it's ignorance vs. awareness. Simple as that.

p.s. - please - if you bother to reply - do not come up with such lies as your classic:
"Do not forget that it was under Muslim rule that the West progressed"

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