Salah Ali: Out of control locus

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 27, 2009 at 13:47

Salah Ali you write:

>>It is true that most Western, not only, America, are departing from Faith. Christianity, however, is itself alien from Western Pagan traditions epotomized by the Roman church marriage of Heavens and Hell, or rather between greco-Roman paganism and Christianity which sprouted in the East.<<

What is Islam but a marriage of Judaism, Christianity and paganism? Muhammad plagiarized the stories of the Jews and Christians (and not very accurately) and combined it with the prevailing pagan customs like the running between two hills which are supposed to be symbols of a god (Koran 2:158) circumambulating a black stone that supposedly dropped out of heaven, making ritual blood sacrifices to please the presiding deity of the Kaba

>> And it is this very departure from faith that renders the West weak and blind.<<

If by faith you mean "A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny" (Wordweb) then the West has certainly divested itself of that mode of control used by the shamans of religion.

And what weakness of the West are you talking about? People who practice 'faiths' all depend on the faithless West. Had it not been for the entry barriers the people of 'faith' would all make a beeline for the weak West (you seem to have succeded in shaking the dust from a nation with 'faith'.)

The 'blind' West has made it possible for you to look into the deepest reaches of the Universe and lets you see the workings of the atoms and particles that make up the cosmos.

Faith tells you that there is an impassable barrier between the salt water of the sea and the fresh water that enters from rivers. Faith tells you that the moon is above the stars. Faith tells you not to befriend people who do not believe like you (Koran 3:28, 5:80, 98:6).

>>Of course, we in Islamdom have not changed temporally, i.e. History persists as a form of feeling and personal identity.<<

That is a statement not supported by facts. Muslims of today do not keep slaves as they did during the Prophet's time. Muslims of today do not call kaffirs to Islam and if they do not accept the call go to war to enforce the word of Allah (this is because they have no choice in the matter), Muslims do not keep concubines as they did during the period of the prophet and the rightly guided caliphs. Muslim women rise to the position of leaders of nations despite the prophet saying a country will be in trouble if ruled by a female. Temporally Muslims have changed.

You fantasise that the sixth century Arabia had the ideal socio-political condition for all humanity forgetting all the cruelties inflicted by the prophet and his sahaba on his own people and those living near and far. The personal identity you talk of is all about Muslims trying to be more Arab than the Arabs. You sneer at the achievements of your own forebears (if you are non-Arab) and blow out of all proportions the achievements of Muslims in lands far removed from yours.

>> In other words, our personal and cultural identities are the same and religion (Islam) is the nucleous of this Identity.<<

>>The way we attribute events differs from the way you Westerners attribute them which entails a different locus of control.<<

If there is a "locus of control" as you put it (meaning, I presume, Allah) then why do you want to complain about what is happening in the world? Allah is controlling every event including what the West is up to. Relax and be happy. Allah is guiding everything towards whatever it is that He has in mind.

>>Heavens is present and the sacred still persists in our minds and everyday life practices.<<

It would have helped if you had been more forthcoming about what this sacred stuff is that persists in your mind and everyday practices.

The heaven that is present in your minds is clear enough from Koranic verses like:

Koran 078.032-33 : Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; And voluptuous women of equal age;

>>Unfortunately, it is not the same in the West despite howling in Tv missionary channels.<<

In the West nothing is sacred, except the individual's human rights and dignity. The howling missionaries on TV are just modern day versions of Muhammad. Muhammed went on looting sprees to collect booty including slave girls for himself and his followers. The missionaries raid the minds of gullible people to loot them of their wealth. At least the howling missionaries do not slaughter people to get their wealth like Muhammad did (Re. the Banu Nadir, Banu Kainuka, the banu Quraiza, Banu Mustaliq….)

>>The sacred has been victimised by pornography.<<

A muslim talking about the sacred being victimized by pornography. LOL. You apparently have not paid attention to what the Koran tells you. Muslims suicide bombers are victimized by Koranic pornography:

The Women of Paradise

055.070 -75YUSUFALI: In them will be fair (Companions), good, beautiful;-

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?- Companions restrained (as to their glances), in (goodly) pavilions;-
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?-
Whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;-

078.031- 33 YUSUFALI: Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfilment of (the heart's) desires; Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; And voluptuous women of equal age;

Also [Baqarah, 2: 25][Waqi'ah, 56: 22-24] [Saad, 38: 52] [Waqi'ah, 56: 35-38] [Rahman, 55: 72 ]

>>Of course, you call this mess freedom of expression, democracy and the liyke. man is colonized by the system.<<

What about Islam? It makes half of humanity, women, sub-humans, to be hidden away behind veils and worthy of being thrashed by men for mere suspicion of disobedience. Islam allows Muslims to keep slaves and trade in them either for money or in expiation of their sins. What would you like to call this mess, Mr. Salah Ali?

>>The cities in the West are organized and individuals are tightly controlled but not by inner mechanisms. They are controlled by the system.<<

Muslims are controlled by Allah (i.e Muhammad's commands). You cannot do anything without seeking Allah's permission (Insha Allah). Allah does not allow you to say anything about the future without His consent: 18:23 And never say of anything, "I shall do such and such thing tomorrow."
18:24 Except (with the saying), "If Allâh will!" And remember your…

Muslims are so tightly controlled by Allah that they have to mutter some incantation before entering the toilet and while exiting it. The toilets of Muslims must certainly be very exalted places!

>> Individuals are free to choose from what they are offered and what he is offered follows the same patter.<<

Do individuals in the West follow the same pattern? It is Muslims who are asked to follow a template set by their prophet. In the West you have gays, lesbians, atheists, agnostics, liberals, the KKK, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Jews, Satanists….

>>You live outside history and there is no faith. <<

Live outside history?? How does one accomplish such a feat?? The Koran itself is practically a book of history.

>>There are of course churches but there is no God in them. To minimise Jesus Christ to the level of a body and give the body false attribute: The Son of God, is to bring God to human standards, make him mundane..<<

The really impressive achievement of the Koran is that it has brought God i.e Allah to the mundane level of humans. Just like any ordinary human Allah curses, swears, abuses, flies into a rage, takes interest in the sex life of humans, and implants His Spirit in the womb of a woman. Allah's own spirit reduced to the body of a human, Jesus. How ordinary and mundane is the Muslim God!

>>Of course we cannot match spiritual hierarchy to biological regeneration. So the West needs another Faith or a new Faith.<<

You should have had the courtesy to explain to us dumbkoffs what connection there is between spiritual hierarchy and biological regeneration.

>>I am dead sure that if the West understands Arabic, and reads the Holy Qur'an, it will embrace Islam because Islam is a common-sense.<<

So Allah (and you) expects the West to become scholars of Koranic Arabic? Unfortunately instead of revealing His message in a major language like Chinese or English Allah made the silly mistake of revealing His message in an obscure language spoken by a small minority of humans. So fat chance of the West becoming Muslims. Your Allah does cut a sorry figure with His extravagant claims to be an all-knowing, all-powerful god.

>>It brings together our world and the world of the souls together.<<

So sad but true that Allah's Koran has signally failed in accomplishing its task. In fact what you see is believers and followers who read the Koran in Arabic fighting and killing each other. Instead of bringing souls together it sunders them. The Koran tells souls to despise each other: Surah 5:51 "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah..." Surah 3:28 Surah 3:118 "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers" Surah 9:23

>>It is universal and particular and provides for both the ignorant and the intelligent.<<

The Koran does provide for the ignorant but not for the intelligent. Only the ignorant will act on a verse like 9:111 in which Allah makes a binding promise to give paradise to those who KILL or are killed in His behalf.

>>The Hebrew Bible is Assyrian history. It is a cuniform given strange alphabets of the pagan Hebrews and pagan Christians. The Bible which I read and compared to the Holy Qur'an is not Holy.<<

The Koran is written in the strange alphabets of the pagan Arabs. The original Koran without the diacritical marks gave the Koran all kinds of contradictory meanings. The Koran became reasonably stable only after more than a century of the prophet's death after the dots and dashes were invented.

The Koran is nothing but the history of the prophet's life, including his sex life.

066.001 YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

033.036 YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.

033.037 Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled.

>>It needs to be rewritten in Aramic and read in Aramic to see the original Jesus in it because Jesus is just as human as muhammad and it is a howler to bring God to a human standard.<<

What have you to say about these howlers:

010.028 -29 YUSUFALI: One day shall We gather them all together. Then shall We say to those who joined gods (with Us): "To your place! ye and those ye joined as 'partners' We shall separate them, and their "Partners" shall say: "It was not us that ye worshipped!
: "Enough is Allah for a witness between us and you: we certainly knew nothing of your worship of us!" (DOES THIS MEAN THAN IDOLS ALSO HAVE SOULS?)

011.118 YUSUFALI: If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute. [WHY DOES ALLAH CURSE KAFFIRS IF HE HIMSELF HAD WILLED THEM TO BE UNBELIEVERS?????]

071.016 YUSUFALI: "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp? [Their midst refers to the midst of he seven heavens]

037.006 YUSUFALI: We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-

37:6 is a major blooper as the stars are not below the moon.

>> God is the light and radiance of Heavens and Earth..He exist everywhere and keeps our living bodies from corruption as ordinary matter does.<<

Ordinary matter does not rot. Our living bodies rot as soon as they lose life. Allah does not prevent our living bodies from becoming stinking decaying corrupt flesh within hours of death. If Allah exists everywhere He exists in our bodies too which suffer from corruption on death. The dead are proof of Allah's corruption.

>>He lives in the consciousness as light, proportion and philosophy and it is he who gave the Tigre its ferocity and the lam its meekness.<<

Great! Therefore the philosophy of the Greeks, the Hindus, the Chinese are all Allah's philosophy. Islam is just one of many of Allah's philosophies.

Did Allah gave the tiger its ferocity so that it can tear the lamb limb from limb to satisfy its hunger?? Could the all-knowing Allah not have found a gentler way to feed the tiger?

>>We see God in the Mosques but in the church there are no guards against the penetration of instincts which I visualize as a horse ridden by the devil.<<

The God in the Mosques in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the UK encourages suicide bombers to destroy mindlessly too. Was it the devil in the form of the preachers in Allah's mosques who sent the bombers on their deadly missions?

>>It destrys man and corrupt family life...<<

The Koran does a nice job of corrupting family life. What kind of family life does a woman have who has to share her husband with upto three other women and any number of concubines?

>>Look how far permissiveness has gone in destroying your western culture.<<

Look at the permissiveness of Islam:

004.020 YUSUFALI: But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong?

004.024 YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:

33:37: "We married her off to you so that there would be no objection for believers in respect to their adopted sons' wives once they have accomplished their purpose with them. God's command must be done!"

Islam lacks not just morality, as in 4:20 and 33:37 but ethics as in 4:24

>> True we lack your cities, but we preserve the family.<<

What is the connection between cities and family? But what is certainly true is that Islam allows the man to preserve his family. For the woman the preservation of her family is entirely dependent on the husband's tender mercy. She can be on the streets with a mere three words from the man, bereft of her home and her children.

>>We lack the diversity of production, but we preserve the taste.<<

What is the connection between diversity of production and taste?

>>We lack science, but we possess insight.<

That Islam lacks science is no big secret. You believe sperm originates from near the backbone, that man was created from clay, dust, water or nothing depending on Allah's mood. You believe that bees eat the fruit of the earth. You believe that mountains are pegs to stabilize the earth. You believe that stars can fall. You believe that sea and fresh water cannot mix. You believe the sun sets in a muddy pool. Why do you need science? You have the insight of the Koran to guide you!

>>Shura is history, democracy is a whore. shura is reality, democracy is hypothesis.<<.

That shura is history is definitely true. Democarcy is a whore used and misused by Muslims to further Muhammad's agenda of world domination. In democracies Muslims fight for a secular dispensation. In Muslim majority countries (almost all dictatorships) Muslims demand and get to impose various versions of sharia and denounce secularism.

>>… in other words, iran must not confound free expression with Western democracy.<<

All humans are born free. Islam enslaves people with concepts like halal and haram.

>>It threatens family unity and negates history by negating Faith.<<

What threatens families is Islam with its unabashedly patriarchal laws. The discriminatory gender laws of Islam make a mockery of the concept of human equality.

How does negating faith negate history? You keep making nonsensical statements. History has happened. Nothing can negate it. Give a little thought to what you write.

Regards

Plato

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