Amin Riaz: If you bring up Western violence you can expect to have Islamic violence thrown back at you

Submitted by Plato (India), Jul 31, 2009 at 23:16

Riyaz, you write:

>>FROM YOUR OVERWHELMING CHOICE OF USING INDIA AS AN EXAMPLE - ICONCLUDE YOU ARE PROBABLY INDIAN OF HINDU ORIGIN. I HAPPED TO BE A MUSLIM OF INIDIAN ORGIN. CONVERTS FROM HIDUISM OF COURSE!<<

What are you trying to imply by suggesting that I am an Indian of Hindu descent? How does my nationality and origin matter here? Does being a Hindu make the person's comments immediately suspect?

>>If I may be so bold to point out that ... the debate in question was not about Muslim on Muslim Violence. Like yourself pointed out ... that is why its useless to mention WW1 & WW2 in that context.<<

This is the quote you used from my post to start your comments: "Muslims on the other hand, taking their cue from the Koran abuse and curse unbelievers, as the prophet did, without having to worry about a slit throat as they know we consider such behaviour uncivilized and will not stoop to the levels of Muslims in aid of their "peaceful" religion." …Plato wrote.

And if I may be so bold as to point out, I am talking about Muslims using their scripture to abuse and curse unbelievers and you turn it around to talk about Western/Christian violence on Muslims. So I turned around and pointed out (using statistics available on the net) Muslim atrocities on fellow Muslims is far worse than that of Christians on Muslims. That seems to made you wince.

>>And anyway - I come from a Indian background myself - and I had members of family at the both side of the debate regarding the Bengladeshi Freedom. This personally is close issure for me.<<

What exactly are you trying to convey with this digression?

>>And the Pakistani violence in Bengladesh was mindless and horriffic. But this was not the "case" in point.<<

Why is the Bengale massacres, which you agree was mindless and horrific, not worthy of Muslim attention? The thousands of Muslims dead in Palestine over sixty years bothers but not the hundreds of thousands Muslims massacred by fellow Muslims in a few months does not concern you?

>>I didn't mention anything about Musims and "Civilsied". I was attacking the high horse you were setting thiwsThis is what you wrote: "Take the above quote - So what do you civilised people call barabaric? When you spectacularly bomb Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq?"

I was juxtaposing the 'spectacular' violence committed by the West on Muslims with the equally 'spectacular' violence committed by Muslims on other Muslims. Is that what you call being on a high horse?

It seems you are only willing to discuss the crimes of others. Ones own crimes are off limits.

…<<… so-called Western Liberalism. This is an umbrella term - commonly used against Muslims. But People like Daniel Pipes or Robert Spence are hardly "nLiberal". Actively Christians, Conservatives and Anti-Islam.<<

How does a term used to describe a category of Westerners be used against Muslims. You are not making sense.

>>Now using Daniel Pipes as a source is interesting - and counting people allegedly killed by Muslims.<<

If you think Danielpipes is suspect try calculating the figures given at the following site:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm

>> I didnt ask about that. You were already talking about Muslim Violence. I asked about West's violence against Muslims. And there is a hell of lot of it. How do you justify killings in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Russia, Indian Kashmir, Palestine ....<<

Nor was I talking about Western violence. I was talking about the contempt in which unbelievers held by Allah.

>>You didn't answer - but gave the old drivel Again. Hey, I know all about Muslim violence.<<

The drivel I gave is found in the Koran where it calls unbelievers stupid, blind, and worthy of only hell.

>>But considering we Muslims are not in number to match technologivally advanced Westeners - how you can you begin take this moral high ground beggars belief.<<

Muslims number more than a billion. Again what you say does not make any sense. What has numbers got to do with matching technological superiority? Israel with tiny population has held off more than a hundred million Arabs for than half a century.

>>I have not come across a Hindu who has read a bit - who does not likes to quote Will Durrant or Koenraad Elst. Elst, was a convert to Hinduism. A contreversial figure. He was massively biased pro-Hindu. May I suggest you read crtiscism of his work as well (might just be an eye opener). His work falss along the same lines as Yvonne Riddley - a convert to Islam "female!" by the way. You know there is an obvious bias.<<

A Hindu quoting Will Durant or Elst does not detract from their scholarship. You should refute Will Durant and Elst instead of insinuating that because Hindus quote them they must be biased.

>>Will durant - was an interesting one - you call him a brilliant scholar but I dont.<<

The opinion of his peers and scholars is more relevant than what you or I think about this historian.

>>He carries on in that work to mention that first Muslim raid on I ndia was Multan 664 - but it was earlier than that and on Sindh - on the coast line. How it was Multan - I dont know? But that too is a long and seprate debate. Amond the which lines I have years studying about.<<

Have you considered the fact that Will Durant probably mentioned only the properly documented one. There were a few probing raids earlier but a proper attempt to subdue the land was what Durant was writing about.

>>You didnt bother to respond properly to what I wrote. ... <<

?? You take off on a tangent from what I had written and consider that a proper response. How about my comments above?

Regards

Plato

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