There is no compulsion into rationality

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Feb 3, 2013 at 17:17

havas wrote:

> ı enjoy to read the thoughts of our enemies.<

I wish instead of enjoying them you had understood them. What you Turks are unable to grasp is that beyond two things which your are taught by rote about "the thoughts of our enemies", namely that they come from

a/stupidity-ignorance ("The giaours don't know anything about Turkey"!)

b/malice-mischief ("You're an Armenian, Ianus!";)

There is a third compelling thing never hinted at to or guessed by you , viz.

3/ a valid point "our enemies" make.

But to understand this third thing which is the most important and decisive one you need a mindset and background which your country's poor education system and extremelyy proficient propaganda preclude - abandoning one's wrong opinions in the light of new, verifiable contrary evidence.

I note that you are unable to counter any detailed argument with any rational, verifiable and source-based counterargument and your complaints amount to generelities and whines worth a kindergarten child offended by being told that his granfather's great stories are fairy tales and belong to the litterbin in the common room.

> but ı cant see any intellectuality in your comments. to be an intellectual you have to be objective and able to listen what the other side says to you.. <

On the contrary one shows a higher intellect when one detects and exposes contradictions and inconsistencies , not to say lies, of the other side than when one acceps them uncritically and without protest. My method is not so different from that of Thucydides , the father of critical history. It's not my fault that your stories turn out to be all lies but rather yours. It's sad that your "intelelctuality" doesn't allow you to practise a bit of self-crticism. It would spare you many an embarrassment. But am I so naive as to envisage "Turks and self-criticism" ? Who reads Thucydides in Turkey?

> you call everything about turkey and turk evil. <

Where have I said anything offensive or indecent about Turkish communists ?

> how can any race or any country be totally evil first of all.<

Where can you see a logical impossibility of that? Is there anything positive about barbarity, e.g.. that which Turks, their hordes and jihad have brought to Europe? I see, it was so fine that now you are crazy about re-imposing your Asiatic Ottoman regress upon us.

> although he is against my countries politics, mr pipes is definitely not like you.<

No, his concept and admiration of Kemalism is based more on his own idealism and wishes than on the historical facts surrounding the rise and coming to power of this dubious and murderous doctrine as I have repeatedly tried to point out. To my mind you can't exterminate 2 mln people, deny it, demand and get a cover up for your genocides from a certain "democracy" and then represent it as a "model of modernity and moderation for other Muslims to follow".

> he looks everything from israels point of view but he is not full of hatred. he is logical from his political position.<

It is none of either your of my business to tell people what they should love or hate. But is is certainly our business to point to certain objective difficulties of loving something which under normal circumstances is worth hating.

> how can ı argue with you? you choose random subjects and try to generalise them all the time.<

First of all, I can tell you that no arguing is possible with people who you know in advance will not change their mind irrespective of what amount of evidence is produced both factual and logical against their point. From my experience with Turks I'd say they don't belong to a culture where changing important opinions according to the weight of rational argument is allowed or possible. It's a matter of principle. So your question "how can ı argue with you? " is a bit misleading. You don't want to argue with me (e.g. about "Hodjali") because you can NEVER EVER admit you are wrong dealing with a despicable giaour like me and no matter what evidence I produce to expose the wrong point you will rather instantly disappear without a word of reply than say honestly e.g. "I am just a Turk. I lied as we all Turks lie to you kafirs" or something to this effect.

> for you a tourist who went to jail in turkey means lots of tourists here go to jail, or a turk making sex with an animal means most turks have animal partners and we have half sheep and half human babies etc. you are like the bad characters in cartoons.<

I cited the facts. The conclusions are yours. Besides, I don't consider these to be my most important posts. The posts exposing your claims and lies about Karabakh or Cyprus or Kemalism are much more important and principal. That you are unable to refute anything only proves the point I wanted to make - one can't argue with people who in principle don't recognize the rules of rational discourse, i.e. the point which turns out to be wrong must be openly rejected by the party that has stuck to it. With you it is the other way arount - you stick to the wrong point and lie even more obstinately than before the debate. And you speak of "intellectuality" ? But maybe you just mean "Turkish intellectualitY" which opens up another long chapter on differences of basic semantics that make any debate with Moslems impossible. One can't have a sensible conversations with people who with the same words one uses mean different or opposite things.

> but more probably ... ı must stop reading you ı think.<

Your Koran tells us in a queer twist "There is no compulsion in religion". I will say more than your Allah "There is no compulsion into rationality".

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