Verses to use in vetting

Submitted by Michael S, Feb 28, 2017 at 04:43

Carl, I think you're drilling close to the root here. You clearly describe the underlying problem, which is this:

Christians and Jews are able to freely argue about points of their religion, without fear of physical harm. A Muslim who argues against his religious leaders, though, faces a fatwah and death. This makes Daniel's idea of "reform" impossible in Islam. I think the Jews stopped killing one another over religious doctrine in the 2nd Century BCE; and the Christians stopped in the 17th Century (when some 12 million Germans Christians died, killing one another). Among Westerners (which includes Marxists), the only groups left who haven't found a peaceful way to deal with "heresy" are the Muslims and the Atheist Socialists.

Religious people cannot reform, unless they are free to discuss matters of faith without resorting to violence. For Christians, this is a relatively simple matter; because Christianity's founder preached non-violence. Moses preached violence, but only to the extent of securing and maintaining the very small Jewish homeland. Only the Muslims and some socialists (such as Marx and Lenin) preach the necessity of conquering the world in order to implement their philosophy.

If a prospect is to be vetted concerning passages in Qur'an, specific passages need to be asked about, such as:

Qur'an 2:
193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

216. Fighting* (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.

244. And fight in the Way of Allah and know that Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

Quran 3:
151 - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

...and here's a real whalloper:

Qur'an 4:
74. Let those (believers) who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter fight in the Cause of Allah, and whoso fights in the Cause of Allah, and is killed or gets victory, We shall bestow on him a great reward.
75. And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."
76. Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan); Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Shaitan (Satan).
77. Have you not seen those who were told to hold back their hands (from fighting) and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, but when the fighting was ordained for them, behold! a section of them fear men as they fear Allah or even more. They say: "Our Lord! Why have you ordained for us fighting? Would that you had granted us respite for a short period?" Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world. The Hereafter is (far) better for him who fears Allah, and you shall not be dealt with unjustly even equal to the Fatila (a scalish thread in the long slit of a date-stone).

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