69 million page views

Premises

Reader comment on item: "A Corrective to the Pipes Worldview"?

Submitted by Brooks Imperial (United States), Aug 29, 2005 at 12:40

First, I think this whole business exists on sliding scales such that it only makes sense to keep the spotlight on the extreme end of the cult. Apparently, all adherents share to some unknowable degree an amount of the extreme jihadi content. Perhaps the range is from (understanding Islam + rejection of violent jihad) --> (practice of Islam + rejection of violent jihad) --> (practice of violent jihad), and all sorts of intermediate compositions.

Secondly, I assume that virtually all of the people in this continuum possess a self-image they see as moral. They all view themselves as correct in the context of society.

Above this subjective mindset an objective reality and an objective language exists under which all human action can be understood. Here the various sects sort out into varying degrees of moral behavior relative to each other. Comparijng that ranking to the first, we see correlations between the degrees of accepted violence, of linguistic separation from objective reality, of self-referential moralization, and of lower objective morality.

So you keep your eye on the objective ball and deal with vociferous defenses from within the cult as what they really are; self-referential justifications. I question how productive it is to engage the substance of cult language because it seems you end up legitimizing the cult construct to some degree through mere engagement, and you end up losing time because the discourse can only proceed to another artificial, or cult-subjective construct. And these folks are nothing if not energetic.

So I would challenge your Muslim critics to make themselves relevant to objective morality rather than continuing to expect objective morality to come 'round to their way of thinking. After all, the subjective cult mindset is primarily their problem and only consequentially the problem of third parties caught in the crossfire. Why should those outside of the religion keep enabling the cult discussion by continuing to engage on its subjective terms? Looking at it another way, can peaceful coexistence with a cult be achieved by acknowledging the legitimacy of it? I doubt it.

Sincerely Yours,
Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

<< Previous Comment      Next Comment >>

Reader comments (48) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
he was of course a Kurd [140 words]Kurdi MuslimJun 17, 2010 19:13174506
Wrong numbers [11 words]serkanFeb 22, 2012 10:09174506
Can of Worms II [63 words]DRBMar 7, 2009 18:03151831
The can of worms [41 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
DRBMar 7, 2009 17:56151830
Ustad [22 words]mirzaSep 19, 2005 11:4226019
was said nursi a kurd or a Turk? [46 words]tahaNov 3, 2006 19:0226019
Said i Nursi or Kurdi [70 words]Bedirhan CanFeb 20, 2007 17:4126019
Said-i Kurdi [134 words]tafaFeb 21, 2007 04:0326019
Comments of Faqi Hussain [192 words]JaladhiSep 1, 2005 15:3525335
India shows the way [436 words]Swahili DinazSep 1, 2005 12:1525321
Battle Chronologies [1119 words]Faqi HussainSep 1, 2005 02:4125309
Too Many Contradictions [291 words]Yehoshua ZellerAug 31, 2005 19:0125295
Brother, thanks for those references [201 words]MuhammadJul 29, 2007 07:0825295
Muslim denial [93 words]Elpi NipniAug 31, 2005 09:1225273
untruth [495 words]arifNov 12, 2006 05:4425273
Response to Nazia Khan [49 words]Jacob CarmielAug 31, 2005 05:5025264
Nazia Khan - Follow up [358 words]TariqJul 30, 2007 10:1225264
Is Bediuzzaman Said Nursi Turk? [165 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MuhammedAug 30, 2005 23:1025252
said nursi was a kurd [54 words]fabianJan 10, 2008 18:4625252
Is Bediuzzaman Said Kurdi, Turk? [95 words]qewaxFeb 5, 2009 05:5825252
not kurd, he say himself kürt [44 words]yigidimMay 28, 2010 17:0825252
The Islamic Classroom [64 words]Arlinda DeAngelisAug 30, 2005 19:4825243
From an Islamic point of view [80 words]ArunAug 30, 2005 16:3425233
Bring your PROOF if you are truthful [32 words]MuhammadJul 29, 2007 09:3725233
Ask a muslim about islam? [229 words]Nazia KhanAug 30, 2005 14:1425221
NAZIA KHAN [52 words]PinkyFeb 21, 2006 02:4925221
Serious Question I need answered! [516 words]Jon WDec 19, 2006 19:1225221
jizya [80 words]PonchoJan 19, 2007 18:2425221
Nazia Khan- follow up argument [361 words]TariqJul 30, 2007 10:1025221
Hannibal 300bc, the use of the crescent in the ancient world [97 words]Pastor Michael CumminsMar 1, 2008 08:5625221
christian woman married to a muslim man [84 words]aliciaJun 25, 2008 13:4025221
What is Sera? [47 words]PatrickFeb 13, 2009 14:5325221
It's a tough one. [52 words]RenchAug 30, 2005 08:4025198
The West should be tolerant of 'natural human desires' [32 words]L. RivlinAug 30, 2005 02:2025194
Turkish writer [78 words]Donald W. BalesAug 29, 2005 22:4125190
Frightening [118 words]felixAug 29, 2005 22:2325189
It would have been funny if it wasn't so sad [241 words]BorisAug 29, 2005 21:2125187
Muslim Slander [148 words]LanceAug 29, 2005 19:0425184
Respect given to Christians and Jews because the Qu'ran says so....Right [264 words]David W. LincolnAug 29, 2005 17:5425181
A Corrective to Pipes Worldview [52 words]Patricia MyerAug 29, 2005 16:4425180
O.K., So... What I Would Like To See [352 words]orange yonasonAug 29, 2005 13:5625178
B. Imperial [219 words]DaisyAug 29, 2005 13:2825176
Respect for others [203 words]J WeinbergAug 29, 2005 13:2025175
Premises [341 words]Brooks ImperialAug 29, 2005 12:4025174
That's Easy [25 words]Howard E. CookAug 29, 2005 09:4625169
Typical Reaction [44 words]JaladhiAug 29, 2005 09:3425168
He was kurd [17 words]Albert AhatovApr 11, 2008 23:0725168
Muslims and christions.... the truth [307 words]xan xioSep 10, 2008 11:2425168

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)