To gary

Submitted by la gitana (Egypt), Feb 9, 2006 at 09:52

first, never use a religious text in an argument, it beats the purpose of the whole concept of argument. At least that's what most of the participants here, including you, seem to be proclaiming vis-a-vis the muslims in the cartoon issue.

second, no one ever argued that Jews lived in that part of the world two thousand years ago, but that same fact applies to the inhabitants of North America just four hundred years ago, and for South America five hundred years ago, and for the Aborigines of Australia three hundred years ago, and for the Arabs in Spain six hundred years ago, and for the Danes in southern sweden seven hundred years ago, by the way originally if we are now refering to the old testament, jews lived in Egypt two thousand years ago as well.So what do we do based on your argument ?

Return North America to the indians, Australia to the Aborigines, Spain to the Arabs, The south of Sweden to Denmark, and just assume for a second and i insist here on the assumption part that the indians or the arbs or the danes were willing and had the means or were given those means by some one else , well what becomes of you, and of the spanish people, and the swedes living in the south of Sweden. Oh in case you don't get it you become dead or refugees , which is exactly what the Palestinians have become. So that is the way of the Jungle, refering to your comment on Machiavelli. And believe me one day it will happen maybe not in that theoretical based assumption, but if one learns anything from History it is the fact that nations and countries change fortune, so it may be the Chinese who will be kicking everyone's ass in a hundred years and then you or your descendents will find themselves in the shoes of people their ancestors are mocking.

Third, your argument about the Arab world choice of despots and half criminals , that is from a US and a Western foreign policy point of view, did you ever think that maybe the vast majority of Iranians, would prefer the Ayatollahs over the shah at any given day. Why is so difficult to accept that other societies and cultures have different criterion and that we have to impose on them a Western style democracy ( Defined as friendly to us and not as chosen by the people and accountable to them)

I completely accept what you said about Machiavelli, but don't you think it is double faced to lay the blame on the reversion to the law of the Jungle on the weaker, rather than the stronger who has been using every single trick in the book of the jungle law for the last hundred years, do you consider colonialism as a symptom of a civilized world , the use of coup d'etat, sabotage and murder of freely elected heads of state ( iam talking fiftees and sixties now shall i start naming the list or do you know what iam talking about) , oh and before i get accused of being a red, iam not , i don't believe in god but that does not make me a communist, the same blames of reverting to the rule of the jungle should also be laid to the soviets who have their own list of wrong doings albeit shorter .
By the weaker in the previous sections i refer to the people , the ordinary people who had a life just like me and you and kids just lime mine and maybe yours ( if you have that is), their lives were destroyed because of the world politics are based on the rule of Jungle, and it is the West who have been leading that trend since it is the leading world power (Britain, and then the US).

Logic implies that even in global relations (2nd state as per Machiavelli) and not just the civil individual society (1st state as per Machiavelli), after all achievements and progress reached on our planet since Machiavelli , that rule of Law should also extend to global relations, it has not and the blame for that lies with the world leading powers, or rather power these days.

oh and by the way your comment insiniuating that i would be an advocate of jewish extermination is as low and un-professional as some one else's in this forum advocating that the muslims of Kossovo, and Bosnia should have been slaughtered. I appreciate sense of humour specially the part relating that the US never had pogroms or holocausts, that clearly indicates your solid belief that the indians of North America are sub-species to Humans, since the last of their slaughters happened in 1890 (wounded knee massacre) , 50 years before the Europeans started their latest massacre of Jews and Gypsies and other minorities.

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