To saladin

Submitted by niels (Spain), Mar 9, 2006 at 12:03

So you want to start a US-Euro mudslinging contest? What a drag..Well, I´ll be as soft and appeasing as Europeans are being perceived nowadays and play nice.

1. yes ,yes indeed

2. Probably yes, because we utterly destroyed each other in every aspect.

3 + 4 Worldwide there are and have been plenty of US client states, as had the europeans before ,when they "dominated" and ,for example, the French still do in Africa. If the dutch were a powerful nation I´m sure we would have had a few still!
Want some examples?

Chronological list of US client states: [under construction]

1847 – Liberia: to present
1848 – Mexico: to 1911
1893 – Hawaii: to 1959
1899 – Cuba: to 1959
1903 – Dominican Republic: to present
1903 – Honduras: to present
1912 – China: to 1949
1922 – Italy: to 1941
1928 – Portugal: to 1974
1933 – Germany: to 1941
1939 – Spain: to present
1943 – Italy: to present
1944 – Saudi Arabia: to present
1945 – France: to 1965
1945 – Japan: to present
1945 – West Germany: to 1960
1945 – South Korea: to present
1945 – Burma: to 1962
1946 – Thailand: to present
1947 – Greece: to 1964
1947 – Turkey: to present
1948 – Israel: to present
1949 – Taiwan: to present
1950 – Colombia: to present
1952 – Australia: to present
1952 – Lebanon: to present
1952 – New Zealand: to 1985
1953 – Iran: to 1979
1954 – Guatemala: to present
1954 – Pakistan: to present
1959 – Paraguay: to present
1955 – South Vietnam: to 1975
1957 – Haiti: to present
1957 – Jordan: to present
1960 – Congo/Zaire: to present
1963 – Iraq: to 1990
1964 – Bolivia: to present
1964 – Brazil: to present
1965 – Greece: to present
1965 – Peru: to present
1966 – Central African Republic: to present
1969 – Oman: to present
1970 – Egypt: to present
1970 – Cambodia: to 1979
1970 – Uruguay: to present
1975 – Morocco: to present
1976 – Portugal: to present
1978 – Kenya: to present
1978 – S. Africa: to 1990
1979 – Yemen: to present
1979 – Somalia: to 1991
1982 – Chad: to present
1982 – Mexico: to present
1984 – Brunei: to present
1988 – Burma: to present
1992 – Angola: to 2002
1993 – Azerbaijan: to present
1993 – Eritrea: to present
1993 – Nigeria: to present
1994 – Ukraine: to present
1995 – Ethiopia: to present
2000 – Kyrgyzstan: to present
2001 – Afghanistan: to present

[all of Latin America (sans Mexico, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Cuba
1964-1990); a legion of others ]

Got this from a Canadian website, and will refrain from any comments, just helping out answering your question.

5. Oh,actually I fully agree with you. Those were our imperialist heydays, we´ve committed quite some atrocities there indeed, very nasty ones (the Aceh war ,turn of the 20th century ,General von Heutsz "pacified" Aceh by wiping out numerous Kampongs and murdering innocent people, the general´s son later became an accomplished SS officer on the Eastern Front and was (luckily) killed...nice family, the guy still has a statue in Amsterdam, somewhere in a forgotten corner)
I am not proud of our colonial history, Saladin, although we did found New York for you guys!

I actually spent 8 months in indonesia (4 trips) ,and always encountered "love"..actually, I expected some older people to vent some anger but none did, they found it funny to practise their dutch again..or maybe they were just being polite.

6. Why do they hate the dutch in south africa?? Never ever heard of that..are you confusing the dutch with the afrikaners? Oh, they were a nasty lot, true, and they are mainly of dutch descent (south africa was a dutch colony till 1813 until the Brits took over), but they have absolutely nothing else to do with Holland.
Actually, when you would have done your homework better you could have found that Holland was a major supporter of the ANC, or are you meaning white south africans do not like us? You might be right.

7.All lot of bloodshed indeed, Saladin. We are all culpable and all states ,when on the aegis of their power, engaged on it. The US, most european states, Japan..The French received massive american support in their Indo Chinese campaign and still got beaten, you could have known beforehand the vietnamese nutt was hard to crack.

The other colonial campaigns you name,all correct, and you forgot a few as well: the Belgians in Congo, the Italians in Libya and Ethiopia (using poisonous gass on large scala) etc.

Look Saladin, you might have the idea I am being condescending, but the knife cuts both ways.
Sure, the US has been benevolent on many ocassions as well, and, unlike what you think, the Europeans will always be very totally gratefull for helping us to be liberated from the Nazi jackboot. Totally.

But let this be clear. The Soviets bore the brunt of it, and the germans employed three quarters of their forces against them (the biggest carnage in history,more than 20 million Russians died, along with some 3 million Nazis) and then there were the partisans everywhere, the Brits, the Free French... Don´t mean to be disrespectful here, but you make it sound the US did it all alone. If the US hadn´t help liberate us they might have been next and ,at the least ,all US influence in Europe would be null and void (would have been either Nazi or Soviet)..but hope not to insult you here, we definitely are and always will thank the US for their efforts, no matter what happens..

Let´s stop this senseless mudslinging and actually discuss something, allright?

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