Another One (now it's ended)

Submitted by JustMe (United States), Mar 23, 2006 at 18:50

You said, "Truth is you have failed me ! I thought we had an agreement not to assault each other's religion and beliefs."

We did agree to disagree, but during that posting you accused me of a few things which I said I would clarify. Then Sarah gets her shots in that I am concocting things, while Adib asks a bunch of questions about my beliefs. Then he says sorry for offending in his next post. I am quite sure I didn't come off offended. Then I'm accused of not addressing the questions and avoiding discussion in this area. Now Hind Samy has launched an all-out assault on the Bible (she starts off by saying it's a totally screwed up text, then uses it for her argument). Now it's back to this old discussion with you. I am going to approach this a little more simply. I'll show you some quotes that you say don't exist, and then I'm done. I'm not going through every single issue you keep bringing up on this subject. It's a basic approach, I know. But it's really the most expedient way to address a very long post by you.


You said, "- Ok basically you are wrong because that treaty wasn't made during the war and there was no
surrounding at all !.The treaty was held "lonnnnnnnnnnnng" ago before the war starts"

I didn't say the treaty was made during the war. I know it was made before the war. That's my point.
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You said, "there was no surrounding at all !"

My response:

Narrated Ka'ab bin Malik by a companion of the Prophet: Quote, "And when the next day came, the Messenger of Allah came to them with armies and surrounded them and said, "By Allah you will not be safe from me unless it is by a treaty we make."" [Sunan Abi Dawood - 3004].

This sounds like surrounding to me and coercion.

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Musnad Ahmad - 22823

Narrated Huthayfa bin Al-Yaman:


He [Mohammad] said to me,

"O Huthayfa, go and infiltrate the people [the armies against the Muslims] and see what they're up to, and don't say a word until you return."

So I went and infiltrated the people while the winds and the soldiers of Allah [referring to the Angels that fought off the armies] were doing what they were doing - not leaving them [the armies] any cauldron or fire or structure. So Abu Sufyan bin Harb [the leader of the Pagan Quraysh] stood up and said,

"O ye people of Quraysh, let every person check and see the person sitting next to him [in fear of spies]."

So I took the hand of the man next to me and said, "Who are you?"

He replied, "I am someone the son of someone [an Arabic expression used in narrating events when the name of the person isn't needed - it is like saying "so and so"]."

So Abu Sufyan said, "O ye people of Quraysh, by Allah your [current] dwelling isn't a place to be dwelled in [meaning that their current situation is bad]; the horses [and camels, mules, etc..] have died, Bani Quraytha has turned us down - we received from them what we don't like [meaning they refused to let them in through their fortresses], and this wind is giving us what you see [a hard time]. By Allah, our cauldrons aren't standing, the fires aren't lasting, and the structures aren't holding. So retreat for I am retreating."

Mohammed sent a spy to check the rumor. As we agree, the Bani Quraytha didn't allow them through. That was confirmed by his spy.
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You said - "Practicaly it wasn't Prophet"Muhammad"PBUH who ordered the beheading"

I have previously addressed this. He intentionally had someone else make the decision to save face. He left it to his man who he knew wanted nothing more than to kill the Bani Quraytha.

My previous post said, "Sa'd bin Mu'adh, one of Muhammed's men, really had it in for these guys (which Muhammed knew full well of this hatred). Muhammed knew what he was doing when he allowed Sa'd bin Mu'adh to decide whether to kill them or not. Muhammed knew the choice his man would make. Following are statements Sa'd bin Mu'adh had made:

Sa'd bin Mu'adh--
"Yes, by God," he replied, "it is the first defeat that God has brought on the infidel and I would rather see them slaughtered than left alive." [Sirat, p. 301]

"O God, seeing that you have appointed war between us and them grant me martyrdom and do not let me die until I have seen my desire upon B. Qurayza." [page 459]
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You can read my other post to Hind Samy for my opinion on how adultery and other sins were dealt with in the Bible. It's from today's date.
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You said, - "Disagree with "Me" with "Sarah" with anyone you like "Justme", just beware that's someone's faith you are discussing."

And maybe you should just beware that it's people's lives that we're discussing. Not only from the past, but at the present time. I can see why no one dares leave your peaceful non-violent religion. Even when Muslims are born anywhere else in the world, you are under Sharia law. If you live a life that your family or other Muslims find disapproving, you are in danger of an Honor Killing. What's sad is that no one has a choice. As stated earlier by one of you, if a woman marries a Muslim man, any children born with him are automatically Muslim. I wonder if Mandy's child realizes it's in danger of an honor killing because she made the mistake of having a child with a Muslim. This is keeping a religion together with fear and terrorism.

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