Justme (Not before this)

Submitted by Another one (Egypt), Mar 24, 2006 at 20:15

i'll get straight to the point....

You said
"Narrated Ka'ab bin Malik by a companion of the Prophet: Quote, "And when the next day
came, the Messenger of Allah came to them with armies and surrounded them and said, "By
Allah you will not be safe from me unless it is by a treaty we make."" [Sunan Abi Dawood - 3004]."

I've told you once before "justme" it's either like this :
- Those facts you've mentioned were simply based on you personal opinion.
- You had other resources were probably based on that article"he Bani Quraytha Jews
Traitors or Betrayed" in a different title.

- You opposed me and claimed that your resources were different, but you didn't actually
mention what they were.

The only reliable source of information to that subject is a book named
"Al Raheeq Al Maktoom " Memoirs of the Noble Prophet [pbuh] by Saifur Rahman al-
Mubarakpuri.
Here's the link :
http://www.masmn.org/documents/Books/Safiur_Rahman_Mubarakpuri/
Raheeq_Al_Maktoom/index.htm

- I wont even bother replying to fabricated quotes anymore,it takes from me more than it adds.
- If you claim you didn't quote any information from those referred websites,then you better
take a look at them and tell me how much different they are from your current resources.

( The Bani Quraytha Jews Traitors or Betrayed? )
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Muhammad/Jews/BQurayza/treaty.html
- As you can see the address title is "answering-islam.org" sounds pretty convincible from
the out side.
But once entered,the shell cracks :
( The Myth of Islamic Tolerance)
Addressing A Common Muslim Polemic
By Sam Shamoun (does that Jewish name ring any bells ! )

Oftentimes, Muslims present specific Quranic citations in order to convince non-Muslims,
especially Westerners, that Islam is a very tolerant religion that allows for or even promotes
peaceful coexistence with other religious groups.

- Similar links :
www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?p=39537
www.naturalsolutionsradio.com/articles/article.html?id=6536&pf=1

- That's a part from the article which emphasis the same meaning of your post :
Mohammed marched towards the Jews in order to either exile them or make a treaty with
them. The Bani Al-Nadheer Jews refused to make a treaty with Mohammed so they fought
against him, lost, and subsequently were exiled. The Bani Quraytha Jews saw the fate of their
Bani Al-Nadheer brethren so they had no choice but to make a peace treaty with him [Saheeh
Muslim - 1766 and Sunan Abi Dawood - 3004].

My response is :
1- { Saheeh Muslim - 1766 } it exists but it has nothing to do with any treaties ,it's about
instructing muslims for prayers.Ofcourse those crooks depended on the fact that none of the
Westerner readers would even bother to search and confirm the reliability of the referred
references .

From Saheeh Muslim (THE BOOK OF PRAYERS)
Book 4, Number 1765,1766,1767:
- Basics of al hadeeth is discussing the EXCELLENCE OF SURAH AL-KAHF AND AYAT AL-
KURSI .
- Abu Darda' reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: If anyone learns by
heart the first ten verses of the Surah al-Kahf, he will be protected from the Dajjal.
- It is through another chain of transmitters that this hadith has been reported by Abu Mas'ud
from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him).
This hadith has been transmitted by Qatada with the same chain of transmitters. But Shu'ba
(one of the narrators) said: At the end of Surah al-Kahf, but Hammam said: At the beginning
of Surah al-Kahf.
-------------------------------------------------------------

- Sunan Abi Dawood 3003,3004 :Again,no such a thing exists.
you don't believe me,do you ?
Very well, check out the hadith database,then report to me when you are done .

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/
http://www.masmn.org/documents/Hadith/Sunan_Abu_Dawud/index.htm

You said
[ This sounds like surrounding to me and coercion.]

- Talking about the siege issue,If you were referring that Bani-quriyza had no other choice but
to sign under threat , you are wrong even if you are too high on your self to confess.

- The first treaty which was held right after the prophet migration to al madina between
Muslims and several Jewish tribes ( Bani ‘Awf,Khaibar, Bani Al-Nadheer, Bani Qaynuqa' ,
Bani-Qurayza,al Kudar,Al Aws,Ghatfan ..etc"

The one you are referring to has nothing to do with bani-Quryiza,and it wasn't a treaty for
peace actually it was a treaty for surrendering.

The Conquest of Khaibar
(In Moharram, 7A.H.)
Khaibar was a spacious strongly fortified territory, studded with castles and farms, lying at a
distance of 60-80 miles north of Madinah, now a village known for its uncongenial climate.
After Al-Hudaibiyah Treaty, the major party of the anti-Islam tripartite coalition — Quraish, the
bedouin horde of Najd tribes and the Jews — was neutralized, therefore, the Prophet [pbuh]
deemed it an appropriate time to settle his affairs with the other two wings — the Jews and
the Najd tribes — in order that peace and security could prevail and the Muslims may devote
their time and effort in propagating the Message of Allâh and calling people to embrace it.
Khaibar itself had always remained a hotbed of intrigue and conspiracy, and the Jews had
always constituted it a source of military provocations and war instigation centre, so it was
given a top priority on the agenda of the Prophet's compelling exigencies. The Jews of
Khaibar had united by an ancient alliance with the Confederates, maintained contacts with
Ghatfan and the Arabians and they even devised an attempt at the Prophet's life. In fact, the
continual afflictions that the Muslims had sustained were primarily attributable to the Jews.
Envoys were repeatedly sent to them for peaceful settlement, but all in vain. Consequently
the Prophet [pbuh] came to the conclusion that a military campaign was a must in order to
forestall their hostilities.

When the Prophet [pbuh], along with his army, moved to this part of Khaibar, Al-Katiba, he
laid a heavy siege to it for fourteen days with the Jews barricading themselves inside their
forts. When he was about to use the rams, the Jews realized that they would perish, therefore,
they asked for a negotiable peace treaty.

Negotiations
Ibn Abi Al-Huqaiq was despatched to the Messenger of Allâh [pbuh] to negotiate the
surrender treaty. The Prophet [pbuh] agreed to spare their lives on condition they evacuate
Khaibar and the adjacent land .However, he stipulated that he would disavow any
commitment if they concealed anything. Shortly afterwards, the forts were handed over to the
Muslims and all Khaibar was reduced and brought under the sway of Islam.

- The story you've mentioned about Abu Sufyan is correct except for some points :
- As i mentioned at my former post ,the prophet sent "Nu'aym ibn Mas'ud" on a secret
mission to stir up hatred between bani Quryiza and the pagans.His mission went successfuly
causing each side to believe that he was betrayed by the other,the Dissension among the
Allies grew.So bani quriza didn't actually refuse the pagans request of allowing them to
breakthrough because of a heart felt to muslims ! no it's because they believed "depending
on the statement of " Nu'aym" if quryish were defeated,they would run away to their
homeland leaving them to face Muhammad alone.

P.F " That story wasn't recorded at "Musnad" Ahmed as you claimed,it was in 1095- [me'aazy]
[aalwaaqdy] 2: 445 "

You said
"I have previously addressed this. He intentionally had someone else make the decision to
save face. He left it to his man who he knew wanted nothing more than to kill the Bani
Quraytha. "

- i've already addressed it as well . Al Aws tribe begged the prophet to let someone from
their own tribe condemn the Quryizans, he granted them their wish and chose "Sa'ad bin
Mu'adh" the only muslim from "Al Aws" tribe who used to have a strong relations with Quriza.

-"Infront of whom exactly the prophet had to save his face ?! the people who were begging
him from al Aws or to the defeated prisoners of quriza ?"

You wrote :
- "I can see why no one dares leave your peaceful non-violent religion "
- I say " i can't see why do people from the west convert to islam,since it's that brutal"

" Even when Muslims are born anywhere else in the world, you are under Sharia law. If you
live a life that your family or other Muslims find disapproving, you are in danger of an Honor
Killing."

- If such a thing was true,than my secular country deserves to be nuked for opposing islamic
traditions !!
- i revealed some detailed information regarding al shari'a law,compared it with the bible
sentences and figured that shria law isn't more cruel than the bible law is .The only difference
i noticed, the biblical law isn't practiced anymore among the western societies unlike al
sharia.

I mentioned that despite of the brutal punishment, there might be away out :
- "adultery" sentence is 100 lashs,the other option of repentance,escaping the punishment is
getting married to your adultery partner "male/female".

- The sentence for the person who kills another person is death"way out if the family of the
victim accepted a certain ransom in order to redeem their lost , the man can be set free.

- i don't submit to al shria law,But even if i was,i've nothing to fear since i don't
kill,rape,commit fornication,steal..etc my sins are minor thank god..also i cannot sympathize
with the scum from thieves, rapists,killers they should have thought about it before doing it.

- Since several issues were totally neglected, there's no need to waste more time
demonstrating things on my next posts .
maybe i should adopt that "basic approach" principle of yours.
- Yes it's ended,No further comment from me regarding that subject no matter what happens.

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