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Re: P.C. Salzman's Book (Culture and Conflict in the Middle East)
Reader comment on item: The Middle East's Tribal Affliction
Submitted by Jerrold Terdiman (United States), Jan 24, 2008 at 10:46
Dear Dr. Pipes,
How can one reconcile Salzman's observations with the historical record of Islam's earlier cultural achievements? Great advances were made in science, mathematics, philosophy etc. This was later followed by a return to the Arabic desert mentality (described by Salzman). What is the explanation for this turnaround?
Thanks for your insights.
Jerrold Terdiman MD ( jterdiman@aol.com)
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
Daniel Pipes replies:
Excellent question.
The answer builds on a passage in my column:
That most Middle Easterners retain this us-versus-them mentality dooms universalism, the rule of law, and constitutionalism. Trapped by these ancient patterns, Salzman writes, Middle Eastern societies "perform poorly by most social, cultural, economic, and political criteria." As the region fails to modernize, it falls steadily further behind.
In earlier eras, universalism, the rule of law, and constitutionalism were not required and a tribally-based culture like that of the Middle East could compete successfully with other civilizations. No longer.
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Reader comments (127) on this item
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Title | Commenter | Date | Thread |
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| The Negev Bedouin [65 words] | Robin Rosenblatt | Jun 28, 2014 08:17 | 215630 | ||
 you misunderstand Bedouin mentality [188 words] | Rao | Oct 17, 2022 03:45 | 215630 | ||
| Muslims from India and countries where they are minority./CIP [248 words] | Ynnatchkah | Feb 25, 2008 23:17 | 121087 | ||
| Loved to listen to your interview today. [44 words] | Ynnatchkah | Feb 25, 2008 22:53 | 121081 | ||
| Authors are afraid to get into Islam [392 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | skmiller | Jan 28, 2008 10:13 | 119151 | ||
| Tribalism or Islam??? [189 words] | Jaladhi | Feb 21, 2008 15:36 | 119151 | ||
| Where is this not the case? [166 words] | DONVAN | Jan 28, 2008 09:53 | 119150 | ||
| Arab tribal mindset [97 words] | mark goldberg | Jan 28, 2008 04:07 | 119132 | ||
| This seems rather obvious to me..... [123 words] | Drew | Jan 27, 2008 12:12 | 119066 | ||
| Islam discourages tribalism [78 words] | Ahmad | Jan 27, 2008 09:45 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | ISLAM & TRIBALISM [76 words] | mark goldberg | Jan 28, 2008 03:54 | 119060 | |
| 1 | To Amhad, please be more specific [245 words] | Larry B. | Jan 28, 2008 16:55 | 119060 | |
| 1 | Ahmad, Do you know true Islam? [203 words] | Ali Khalaf | Jan 29, 2008 15:59 | 119060 | |
| Islam discourages tribalism [112 words] | Ahmad | Jan 29, 2008 19:16 | 119060 | ||
| Islam discourages tribalism [204 words] | Ahmad | Jan 29, 2008 19:34 | 119060 | ||
| Tribalism [14 words] | Ahmad | Jan 29, 2008 19:40 | 119060 | ||
| Thank you - Ali Khalaf [102 words] | Jaladhi | Jan 29, 2008 20:42 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | Ahmad, we are happy to remain non-thinking mammals, instead of becoming thinking Muslims. [761 words] | Plato | Feb 1, 2008 00:11 | 119060 | |
| Tribalizm [33 words] | Kris | Feb 1, 2008 12:34 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | Ahmed, Please dont try to pull wool over my eyes [510 words] | Ali Khalaf | Feb 1, 2008 17:01 | 119060 | |
| Sex with Daughters in Law : Divinely Ordained [47 words] | Ali Khalaf | Feb 1, 2008 17:15 | 119060 | ||
| response to Ali [103 words] | Ahmad | Feb 3, 2008 09:00 | 119060 | ||
| response to Kris [81 words] | Ahmad | Feb 3, 2008 09:06 | 119060 | ||
| response to Plato [276 words] | Ahmad | Feb 3, 2008 09:27 | 119060 | ||
| Thank you, Ali Khalaf [136 words] | jennifer solis | Feb 3, 2008 20:01 | 119060 | ||
| Answer to Ahmad [109 words] | Kris | Feb 3, 2008 23:03 | 119060 | ||
| ALI; Prophet Gained Riches and Women from Prophethood [306 words] | Ali Khalaf | Feb 4, 2008 12:50 | 119060 | ||
| Response to Ahmad, Read Hadiths and Siras before calling me misinformed [274 words] | Ali Khalaf | Feb 4, 2008 13:42 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | Ahmad: Would you emulate what your prophet did? [538 words] | Plato | Feb 5, 2008 01:41 | 119060 | |
| To Jennifer Solis: Only guarantee of Getting Paradise is to kill or get killed for Allah (9.111) [260 words] | Ali Khalaf | Feb 5, 2008 13:20 | 119060 | ||
| read the Koran and be misinformed [203 words] | trans-parere | Feb 5, 2008 18:07 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | Prophethood for Profit!!! [100 words] | Jaladhi | Feb 7, 2008 16:09 | 119060 | |
| Sharia [204 words] | Ahmad | Feb 7, 2008 19:36 | 119060 | ||
| JALADHI: AYA 33.50 IS ENOUGH TO EXPOSE THE PROPHET [41 words] | Ali Khalaf | Feb 8, 2008 11:28 | 119060 | ||
| the Jewish people flourished and were treated fairly? [52 words] | Alex Saby | Feb 11, 2008 22:54 | 119060 | ||
| treaty [22 words] | Ahmad | Feb 12, 2008 22:15 | 119060 | ||
| Equality [13 words] | Kris | Feb 13, 2008 12:16 | 119060 | ||
| Equality [7 words] | Ahmad | Feb 13, 2008 19:56 | 119060 | ||
| We were suckered ... [45 words] | Alex Saby | Feb 14, 2008 19:45 | 119060 | ||
| 100% of what rights? [200 words] | jennifer solis | Feb 15, 2008 01:34 | 119060 | ||
| Jewish tribes [319 words] | Ahmad | Feb 15, 2008 18:08 | 119060 | ||
| Jewish of Arabia [80 words] | Alex Saby | Feb 15, 2008 20:28 | 119060 | ||
| sharia [242 words] | Ahmad | Feb 16, 2008 09:14 | 119060 | ||
| Our dear Ahmad and fantasy [179 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 16, 2008 09:46 | 119060 | ||
| A distorted view? [224 words] | Larry B. | Feb 16, 2008 12:30 | 119060 | ||
| Equality versus rights [224 words] | Kris | Feb 16, 2008 15:53 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | Our dear Ahamd and al-nasikh wa al-mansukh [148 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 16, 2008 19:06 | 119060 | |
| Rule over Islamic Society vs. Free Will [174 words] | jenninfer solis | Feb 17, 2008 00:44 | 119060 | ||
| dhimmi no more [40 words] | Ahmad | Feb 17, 2008 07:46 | 119060 | ||
| rights [60 words] | Ahmad | Feb 17, 2008 07:54 | 119060 | ||
| Jewish tribes [32 words] | Ahmad | Feb 17, 2008 08:32 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | Our dear Ahmad and the "no complusion in religion"'s Sabab al-Nuzul part deux [332 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 17, 2008 08:49 | 119060 | |
| Our dear Ahmad and Muslim logic an oxymoron if there is one [423 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 17, 2008 09:05 | 119060 | ||
| Our dear Ahmad you have no answer! I see [78 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 18, 2008 07:13 | 119060 | ||
| Ahmad: Do a reality check on Islamic history form original Muslim sources, not latter day Maulana history [556 words] | Plato | Feb 18, 2008 07:50 | 119060 | ||
| Ahmed: Defending virtual sharia [151 words] | Plato | Feb 18, 2008 08:06 | 119060 | ||
| Ahmad: A dishonest way to honour treaties [348 words] | Plato | Feb 18, 2008 08:36 | 119060 | ||
| Jewish Tribes Issue! [47 words] | Alex Saby | Feb 18, 2008 23:46 | 119060 | ||
| Our dear Ahmad and dhimmis [34 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 19, 2008 07:55 | 119060 | ||
| Islam does not offer a Free Choice! [85 words] | alex Saby | Feb 19, 2008 14:42 | 119060 | ||
| jewish -muslim history [23 words] | Ahmadt aoutb | Feb 19, 2008 18:16 | 119060 | ||
| The shari3a and our dear Ahmad al-tablighee and delusions [83 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 19, 2008 19:38 | 119060 | ||
| Ahmad: History is a matter of belief? [27 words] | Plato | Feb 19, 2008 22:26 | 119060 | ||
| Big time falsafa from North of the Border and the Qur'an v. the Shahnemah [511 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 20, 2008 07:45 | 119060 | ||
| History [19 words] | Ahmad | Feb 20, 2008 17:57 | 119060 | ||
| muslim acts [39 words] | Ahmad | Feb 20, 2008 18:04 | 119060 | ||
| Jizzya [48 words] | Ahmad | Feb 20, 2008 18:14 | 119060 | ||
| Buzzzzzzz??? [577 words] | trans-parere | Feb 20, 2008 19:31 | 119060 | ||
| Our dear Ahmad and his Allah little jizya [239 words] | dhimmi no more | Feb 22, 2008 17:58 | 119060 | ||
| G-d is Reasons [114 words] | Alex Saby | Feb 24, 2008 13:44 | 119060 | ||
| Evidence [172 words] | Ahmad | Feb 26, 2008 17:53 | 119060 | ||
| 1 | SURA 33.50 -- IS ALL OF 33 AS SELF-SERVING AS IT SOUNDS? [400 words] | gwk | May 10, 2008 20:49 | 119060 | |
| Objection [221 words] | Lateef | Jul 16, 2014 21:32 | 119060 | ||
| Jesus Vs. Muhammad [73 words] | andrasai | Sep 4, 2015 10:48 | 119060 | ||
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| Arab tribalism [86 words] | mark goldberg | Jan 28, 2008 04:01 | 119044 | ||
| Arab Tribalism: Response to Mark Goldberg [236 words] | Gloria Stewart | Jan 28, 2008 18:25 | 119044 | ||
| Destruction of mankind [327 words] | Yoven | Jan 25, 2008 16:55 | 118981 | ||
| Slogans [39 words] | mark goldberg | Jan 28, 2008 04:13 | 118981 | ||
| Question for Dr Pipes? [55 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Yoven | Jan 25, 2008 16:19 | 118980 | ||
| Questions About the Book [236 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Fred F. | Jan 25, 2008 12:22 | 118968 | ||
| for Fred F. [165 words] | Peter Herz | Jan 28, 2008 11:46 | 118968 | ||
| Thanks for the recommendation. [24 words] | Fred F. | Jun 8, 2008 12:30 | 118968 | ||
| Interesting comparative research [109 words] | Elad Yoran | Jan 25, 2008 12:01 | 118965 | ||
| Tribalism ist not obligatorily a bad thing. And religion is not obligatorily a good thing. [127 words] | Alain Jean-Mairet | Jan 25, 2008 03:10 | 118942 | ||
| Review misses part of Salzman's thesis [233 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Archimedes2 | Jan 25, 2008 02:45 | 118938 | ||
| Good Discussion [46 words] | Monte Gardner | Feb 5, 2008 22:07 | 118938 | ||
| Yes, here, but no, in Dar al-Islam [243 words] | Archimedes2 | Feb 6, 2008 18:20 | 118938 | ||
| cultural values perpetuated in isolation [290 words] | Trans-parere | Jan 25, 2008 01:02 | 118934 | ||
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| There is Only One World [300 words] | Duane F | Jan 27, 2008 14:16 | 118897 | ||
| Some Puzzles [100 words] | Edward Halper | Jan 24, 2008 13:46 | 118895 | ||
| Perceptive [53 words] | Vijay | Jan 24, 2008 12:16 | 118892 | ||
| That excellently explains the murderous vitality of Islam, and doesn't offer much hope [115 words] | Charles Martel | Jan 24, 2008 11:56 | 118890 | ||
| I had written this exact point couple years ago here. [25 words] | Mike Aksman | Jan 24, 2008 11:32 | 118888 | ||
| I'm confused [35 words] | bos | Jan 25, 2008 06:43 | 118888 | ||
| sorry to hurt your feelings [73 words] | maksman | Jan 25, 2008 19:44 | 118888 | ||
| no need to apologise, you didnt hurt my feelings [512 words] | bos | Jan 28, 2008 09:51 | 118888 | ||
| boy, too much knowledge is not always good as I can see [91 words] | maksman | Jan 28, 2008 20:07 | 118888 | ||
| dear, proudly under informed [339 words] | bos | Jan 30, 2008 04:57 | 118888 | ||
| it is getting interesting for the wrong reasons [70 words] | maksman | Jan 31, 2008 17:00 | 118888 | ||
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| Marci's Unsaintly Western Fascism [233 words] | Arlinda DeAngelis | Feb 10, 2008 20:55 | 118884 | ||
| Islam is the cause of Middle East and World problems!!! [80 words] | Jaladhi | Jan 24, 2008 11:09 | 118883 | ||
 Re: P.C. Salzman's Book (Culture and Conflict in the Middle East) [58 words]w/response from Daniel Pipes | Jerrold Terdiman | Jan 24, 2008 10:46 | 118881 | ||
| The Middle East's Tribal Affliction [173 words] | Jerrold Terdiman MD | Jan 29, 2008 15:39 | 118881 | ||
| One more way ... [10 words] | David Gerstman | Jan 24, 2008 10:35 | 118880 | ||
| when tradition falters [368 words] | Rebecca Moulds | Jan 24, 2008 10:16 | 118877 | ||
| Tribalism [42 words] | D | Jan 24, 2008 09:12 | 118876 | ||
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| Islam's afflictions built into it [453 words] | Plato | Jan 30, 2008 21:31 | 118867 |
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