Re: Turkey - a harlot's virginity in crisis

Submitted by Cagri (Netherlands), Mar 11, 2010 at 20:00

Ianus (Poland) wrote:

> But courage, Turk!

Ah, that's one of your prejudices, being from Turkey does not make me "Turk". Alas, a simple one, I can ignore.

> Don't be afraid of long replies! Show us all the unfathomable depth of your "knowledge"! It will serve your purpose much better than what you're doing now - exposing yourself inadvertently to your own criticism of "baseless judgmental claims" only because of your laziness and its good neighbour - "moral" superiority.

I'm not afraid of long replies, I believe in sticking to subject at discussion. For this thread: Kemalists or AKP. The reason I did not reply your message with every claim was because of your wide divergence form the subject.

> I leave the rest of your comment as useless without a reply and wait for your further Ataturk&Allah-inspired revelations of how Turkey's Islamic harlot's secular virginity can still be operationally restored.

As you do not seem to be lazy, that must be due to your moral superiority (isn't it a well known fact that Europeans are superior anyway?).

To enable you to answer me, and benefit from your great knowledge which seems to be more than the "ignorant" Turks who does not know who they are, here is one "fact" you pick from CIA factbook that you seem to be very fond of:
> Turkey is a purely Islamic country with its incredible 99,8% Islamization rate ...

This official count counts me, an atheist, as Muslim too. I and the people like me I know may not take this number much down, I should admit. However, 10 to 20% Alevi's do not necessarily belong to the "Islam" you have in mind. Indeed, there had been "homogenization" of the country all along, and that reduced the number of other religious varieties a seriously. No doubt this is bad, and Turkey itself suffered more from loosing it's original mixture more than anyone. And, for that, as much as Kemalists, you should blame "humanitarian" European approach of the day, and first incarnation of AKP. The first "exchange" in the history of Turkish Republic was requested by League of Nations, to rescue the remaining higher race/religion from the barbarian Turks. Of course you can blame Kemalists for accepting the request, but you should pay the credit to originator too. Second one in 1950's happened while the first incarnation of AKP was in rule, like the current one, I'm sure they were all innocent, and it was all Kemalists who started it, but truth is nobody tried to prevent it. Indeed, there has been heavy homogenization work going on, and Kemalists are not innocent on that, but that does not make others "AK".
There has been an "Islamization" in the country, particularly after 1980 (and accurate for the purpose Daniel Pipes' article does not list 1980 military intervention), but this has nothing to do with your 99,8%. Percentage was probably more-or-less the same. The difference is on the number of people who is practicing and the ratio of social prominence and institutionalization of the religion. My parents state that they are Muslims, but I've never seen them going to mosque, nor having problems with my beliefs. This was fine for their "Islam", and most of the "Islam" I know in Turkey, but not for the AKP idea of "Islam".

With regard to Islamization, the current state in Turkey, in my opinion, is not that scary yet. My personal experience is that average Turksih citizen is still less religious than average Polish citizen (Admittedly subjective, I know the country relatively well, my wife is Polish). But, hey.. I'm again forgetting, Catholicism is "morally" superior to Islam, so this is irrelevant sorry.

Before diverging too much:

The original article says: There is a crisis between Islamists and Kemalists.
You say: ... Turks. Nothing is positive about this country so why bother. (but still bother to write long notes full of hate)
I say: If you have any sypmathy towards personal freedom, democracy and human rights, do criticize Turkish official policy, but without siding with AKP. Kemalists will give in to a more democratic system eventually. But if AKP manages to get what they want, possibility of democracy will be farther away than now.

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