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ITS, go ahead and rubb it in

Reader comment on item: It's Not Road Rage, It's Terrorism
in response to reader comment: ...one year on

Submitted by Michel C. Zala (Switzerland), Apr 29, 2012 at 14:24

Hello GIK, nice to see you still around here.

Indeed, credit, where credit is due, you were in our debates in the camp of the "pessimists", albeit at all times very respectful, polite and tolerant to my somewhat moderate views, compared to our mutual friend, dhimmi no more. I very well remember my last outburst of optimism in regard to Libya one year ago, which you reference in your comment, but also other exchanges to Turkey especially - a nation I have travelled and visited often and felt to know quite well.

As far, as Libya is concerned, GIK, I am not quite 100% ready and willing to concede defeat or agreement with you, as most revolutions, eventually resulting in stable democracies, were immediately followed by turmoil, sometimes utter chaos, and practically always by struggles for power and position. Even my beloved American Revolution, which could very well have ended up in some form of Monarchy or dictatorship, if Washington did not gracefully and voluntarily exit and allow for a fragile parlamentary democracy to take roots. His people, his compatriots, heck, even many of his fellow Founding Fathers were willing to grant this man a crown or presidency for life - albeit he walked away without need or pressure but for the knowledge that he would endanger the hard-fought results of the war for independency and democracy. (Something, Mr. Putin could well learn from for Russia). Thus the Americans did not have to go through years of chaos and the subsequent terrible Napoleonic periode. Because of the wisdom and foresight of one great leader. Can I be so bold and call it luck? Having thus gone through a comparably painless initial stage towards Freedom and Democracy, especially we Americans should demonstrate a great deal of humility and tolerance towards other, I call them normal, revolutions.

This is, why I myself am not quite willing to condemn the transitional Libyan government yet. While I do appreciate the danger a seemingly strong Islamist faction presents, there are at present also forces which work towards a secular democracy - quite difficult in any muslim nation, because of the mentioned built-in design flaws of this religion, which commands a strong involvement in literally all aspect of the people's life, political or private, as a people and as individual. Most of all I consider any change so ever to the terrible Ghaddafi regime as a step up. This man had to be removed no matter what. Not before the Muslim Brotherhood would be in power, civil war would break out and repression of the worst kind like under Ghaddafi would be the norm, will I concede to have replaced evil with equal evil. Above all, they deserve at least 10 years to determine their future and during that decade The West will have ample time and opportunity to exercise influence and assist in many ways to prevent Islamism from taking over. Let us not underestimate the general feeling of the Libyan population, similar to the French after D Day. They are well aware of who their true friends are in comparison to the opportunistic, macchiavellistic Russians or Chinese or the lukewarm support by the great financiers of Islamism, the GCC with the Saudis as spearhead.

I call upon Libyan commentators here to support or discuss my impressions. Do I see this correctly or am I too naive again? Is Libya inevitably on the road to yet another theocracy and the hammer of Islam guiding and ruling all aspects of the life there? Are there forces, movements, factions in open and loudspoken support of a secular democracy? What are their chances to succeed? I'd love to hear from people out of Libya.

_________________________________________________________________

When I mentioned my utter disappointment with Islam or Muslims in my prior posts, I referred mainly to Turkey. Since Erdogan determines the political direction of this nation, it has clearly changed its people. From a psychological standpoint somewhat understandable, as deeply rooted inferiority complexes have evolved to some sense of a newfound strength, pride and nationalism, manifested in a significantly changed, robust, if not outright populist, arrogant and self-centered foreign policy. It is manifested in the tone of so many Turkish commentators here and everywhere on the Web. It is manifested in the nowadays extremely radical fundamentalist muslim sentiments of so many Turks living in Europe as well earning, prospering minorities, especially in Austria and Germany. Tragically the very same tone is prevalent in Turkey proper.

A nation on the verge of joining a society of free, western democracies and alliances, prospering and positively developing has clearly taken many steps backwards. It pains me personally a great deal, since I alsways considered myself as a friend of the Turkish people. Instead of becoming the role models of Muslims prospering in western societies and due to it promoting reform, modernity and secularism, they predominantly act arrogantly, patronizing, ungrateful and see themselves as some sort of a second coming of the old man on the Bosporus, competing with super powers for hegemony throughout the entire middle east. A truly insidious rise of Islamism without any revolution or Arab Spring, purely stemming from a political faction under the direction of a leader driven by some miniature Napoleon complex.

While I staunchly believed that the millions of Turks, living in Europe, would with their strong family ties prove to become some form of counter balance to those Islamist forces at home by pouring millions of Dollars (and influence) back into Turkey, I find myself today sadly disappointed, as Turkey proper, heck most their people in Europe, is as far removed from our guiding principles as ever. You as well as Dr. Pipes were clearly right and I find myself today on the wrong side of the debate we once had.

I was also wrong with regard to Egypt. Mubarak was scapegoated by the very same military regime still in true power, and the only alternative at present seems to be the muslim brotherhood. What a choice between bad and worse. While I should, according to my own prerequisite, give this "revolution" a bit more time, it nevertheless seems to follow historical parallels into a chaos, followed likely by an Islamist regime, as any moderate, secular factions and movements seem to be either inexistent or mute, to be polite. Recent actions and expressions toward Israel point to a populist effort (the common enemy), similar to Turkey, desperately clinging to power by villifying ISR and the US which, after all, actively assisted in the overthrow of Mubarak.

Lastly, network terrorism has definitely taken a hit. The War on Terror at least in the USA has kept us safe for a decade now. Albeit, soft target, individualist suicidal terrorism, the more dangerous, cell based cancer is on the rise. Literally every single day some fanatic Muslim blows himself up somewhere in the world, indiscriminately killing civilians, fellow muslims, women and children - all in the name of Allah. Worldwide, people live in fear of a muslim attack. Worldwide, when people see a muslim, a woman in a burqu'a, a guy with a turban, olive skin and/or a mustache, they cringe and suspicion, fear and angst are prevalent.

Europe especially responds with appeasement and kumbayah, so called tolerance and understanding. The media hypes up every single occasion, where rare terror of non-muslim origin (e.g. Breivik) occurs. In America the mainstream media tries to stir up fake racism allegations (Trayvon Martin shooting) - only to avoid those uncomfortable (politically incorrect) questions in regard to Islam and its in the meantime utter domination of worldwide terror. While the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union, an ultra left Association) clamors about racial profiling, 99 out of 100 people traveling by airplane understand, that it is not the white grey haired grandmother who will ikely blow up a plane. Worldwide, Muslims demand special treatment, equality in western host nations, tolerance and acceptance. And in return? They build religious indoctrination centers and say nothing of note about muslim violence.

Yes, GIK, I have developed from a 50:50, glass half full kind of guy into a 90% pessimist in everything concerning islam. It is about time that I concede that there is no such thing like moderate Islam, a majority of muslims willing to rise up against their own fundamentalists. Having said that, I may sound as counterdicting myself here, I believe that there is a majority of Muslims not interested in active violence or terror. But, as long as they do not speak up, actively do something against their own fanatics to keep them in check or marginalize them, if not outright work towards reformation of Islam in order to curb or even prevent abuse of that religion, all of them must be held accountable as accomplices or co-conspirators. For as long as the saying holds true, that not all Muslims are terrorists, but pretty much all terrorists are Muslims, all Muslims should pay the price for the actions of their extremists. Since appeasement and tolerance clearly have not worked, perhaps pressure, racial/religious profiling, monitoring and curbing of their religious activities (in the West at least) may result in the needed pressure on this culture to exercise some form of self-discipline and self-awareness. If all muslims feel the pain of the repercussions to global terror, maybe then they will feel compelled to do something in addressing the root causes for it.

Yes, GIK, while I call for a bit of patience with regard to Libya, concerning Egypt, Turkey and most other muslim Nations, as well as the large minorities living in Western democracies, I have evolved from a dove to a hawk, which is why I am no longer willing to differentiate between a Muslim and an Islamist anymore.Credit, tolerance, liberties and freedom have to be earned first, they can't just be demanded. And, it is time now to take a stand, as hiding behind a silent condemnation or support of Islamists can no longer be acceptable.

How are things in Australia? Do you encounter the same there? Are the activities of Muslims monitored and curbed, or do you experience the same fruitless debates as well with a media hiding behind the shield of political correctness? You guys are sitting right next to a 300 M people hotspot (Indonesia) which can erupt at any time, sitting so close to so much open, free territory. How are you guys dealing with that danger? Do not forget, I was exec with Boeing and am privy to certain classified info with regard to AU defenses in the center north of your continent. You guys aware of the respective collaboration between the US and AU? Is it a topic of discussion?

Best,

Michel

Submitting....

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Reader comments (100) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2Terrorism and crimes by civilized countries [66 words]MishaDec 10, 2012 11:19201308
Accurate reporting on reality [67 words]stryver1Jul 6, 2012 20:16197045
1Until we learn the difference, nothing will work [90 words]steveNJun 9, 2012 22:46196190
Trauma in childhood was the cause for Jihad attack?? [50 words]saraleeMay 15, 2012 18:33195619
Alquds and the dreams of muslims [752 words]zilMay 15, 2012 14:57195615
3wrong audience [178 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 16, 2012 23:15195615
2Comparison [94 words]saraMay 12, 2012 17:54195570
Road rage? [109 words]stranchanApr 23, 2012 22:16195243
3Rashid Baz [67 words]stevenApr 14, 2012 07:57195085
7The koran teaches that terrorism against Jews is a great thing ! [95 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Phil GreendApr 9, 2012 01:53195036
please where does it say in the Quran, please quote [10 words]sephardiApr 9, 2012 19:16195036
4Hadith about killing jews hiding behind a tree [62 words]PrashantApr 10, 2012 00:47195036
1USC.edu and Jihad Watch provide insight. [12 words]KerryApr 14, 2012 21:52195036
2Terrorism [61 words]RexApr 15, 2012 00:04195036
3hatred towards Jews & other nonbelievers. [84 words]aktApr 15, 2012 23:37195036
1Anti-Jews references in holy Koran [56 words]akt(india)Apr 21, 2012 13:49195036
1Passages against Jews and Christians [76 words]stanley bMay 15, 2012 18:30195036
none [33 words]AshishAug 16, 2012 04:14195036
1stanislaus [76 words]Insanity vs JihadismApr 8, 2012 03:47195031
1True [16 words]aspaciaApr 7, 2012 10:18195017
muslims, not islamists [56 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Lev AzkharApr 7, 2012 10:09195016
Muslims vs Islamists [47 words]PrashantApr 10, 2012 00:51195016
1Bill O'Reilly [60 words]Mark D.Apr 11, 2012 23:20195016
Not Using "Islamists" [106 words]Mark DApr 13, 2012 23:28195016
1Islamists vs Muslims [99 words]PrashantApr 14, 2012 23:29195016
3Why dont so called good Muslim revolt against terrorism ? [119 words]akt( India)Apr 21, 2012 13:11195016
11Bad Things Happen, When Good People Do Nothing [947 words]Michel C. ZalaApr 24, 2012 12:42195016
Seeing the light [26 words]UgriApr 26, 2012 05:49195016
3...one year on [309 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanApr 27, 2012 00:10195016
1ITS, go ahead and rubb it in [1783 words]Michel C. ZalaApr 29, 2012 14:24195016
3Gedanken aus dem Südpazifik [1869 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 1, 2012 07:17195016
Wisdom [873 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 2, 2012 06:46195016
9Dealing with Islam, deconstructiing the notion of appeasement [69 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 2, 2012 07:29195016
1good points [85 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 2, 2012 20:02195016
2Echte Demokratie in Libyen? Ich habe keine Ahnung [591 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 3, 2012 06:47195016
2post script [7 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 3, 2012 21:24195016
2Why stop there? [467 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 4, 2012 14:03195016
2Hoffnung ausgeloscht? [837 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 5, 2012 00:23195016
1Unbelievable - a muslim voice for reformation of Islam? [123 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 5, 2012 14:30195016
3QED - It is actually happening right now. [522 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 6, 2012 12:27195016
2a voice crying in the wilderness [246 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 7, 2012 03:11195016
1biased press [145 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 7, 2012 03:26195016
12Creeping Scharia Watch [444 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 9, 2012 09:53195016
2one law for all - has been the rule so far [509 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 9, 2012 22:12195016
11A few remarks to the "practical and pragmatic" Gerrmans [951 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 12, 2012 10:12195016
1good news [775 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 13, 2012 00:56195016
Good news indeed [88 words]saraMay 13, 2012 19:05195016
1Good On You [169 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 14, 2012 09:00195016
1deportations called for [318 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 14, 2012 22:51195016
8Yet another brutally honest and flaming condemnation of the Hypocrisy [796 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 15, 2012 11:47195016
1Another tiny difference [948 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 16, 2012 03:11195016
Thanks Michel for the link [76 words]saraMay 16, 2012 18:04195016
1talk-back [359 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 16, 2012 22:55195016
3How the Germans discuss the Salafist problem [135 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 18, 2012 10:11195016
2the bearded round men theme [370 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanMay 20, 2012 00:04195016
10Recommended Read: Victor Davis Hanson [1016 words]Michel C. ZalaMay 21, 2012 10:50195016
Insane according to whom? [114 words]stevenApr 6, 2012 23:39195010
2The Prospect of Terrorism in Europe [1036 words]Musa Khan JalalzaiApr 5, 2012 06:00194985
4one solution [123 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanApr 5, 2012 21:54194985
1Muza has a horrible case of obstucfation. [35 words]aspaciaApr 7, 2012 10:25194985
Changing Nature of Civil War in Pakistan [990 words]Musa Khan JalalzaiApr 30, 2012 08:30194985
8We have the means, motive and opportunities.... [2123 words]Michel C. ZalaApr 30, 2012 14:19194985
6It's Not Road Rage. It's Terrorism [122 words]S.C.PandaApr 5, 2012 04:21194983
4if we're nice to them, they'll be nice to us and then maybe go away. [69 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanApr 5, 2012 22:06194983
1Your Jewish population number is optimistic [175 words]saraApr 7, 2012 17:37194983
3giving peace half a chance [136 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanApr 7, 2012 23:32194983
True, and terror attacks in India are downplayed [118 words]stanley bMay 15, 2012 18:27194983
True, and terror attacks are downplayed [40 words]S.C.PandaMay 17, 2012 04:14194983
1Merah's apprehension sooner would have saved lives [130 words]mythApr 4, 2012 19:02194976
3I know why [45 words]stanleyApr 4, 2012 19:06194976
Jihad motivations [150 words]steviasApr 4, 2012 18:45194974
Stevias, it is manipulation not insanity. [19 words]KerryApr 7, 2012 10:28194974
2Exactly- that is the issue here [67 words]steviasApr 14, 2012 19:30194974
2Jihad Motivation comes from Quran. [149 words]skaiApr 28, 2012 17:13194974
1Some Road [68 words]Jay1Apr 4, 2012 18:38194973
1Yes, they must all be crazy... [68 words]saraApr 4, 2012 18:49194973
2Comparison between reactions is clear, as well as Jihadi insanity [205 words]steve radnicApr 4, 2012 18:09194971
1Insanity is a cop out [67 words]stanley bApr 4, 2012 17:49194970
4Jihadists pleading insanity is insanity [93 words]saraApr 4, 2012 17:47194969
1Are Jihads clever.? [82 words]skaiApr 28, 2012 17:33194969
2Not the way we are handing it will we ever rid of Islamic terror [183 words]NuritGApr 4, 2012 16:40194968
just the facts [65 words]lippyApr 5, 2012 08:01194968
1Not the way we are handing it will we ever rid of Islamic terror - just the facts [345 words]NuritGApr 5, 2012 20:24194968
how to earn the label terrorist [72 words]mythApr 4, 2012 14:47194966
3Islamic terrorists [98 words]stasApr 4, 2012 12:11194963
My thought as a Jew [44 words]Alan MargolisApr 4, 2012 11:28194961
2What is your point? [172 words]stanley bApr 5, 2012 19:24194961
3Islam as mental illness [117 words]BamagujeApr 4, 2012 08:20194959
1It's Not Road Rage, It's Terrorism [35 words]Balarabe AbbaApr 4, 2012 06:04194956
Addition to the last paragraph [117 words]Stephen BorkowskiApr 3, 2012 23:06194950
Not sorry but bragging about their terror deeds. [131 words]batya daganApr 3, 2012 22:39194948
1Well then, aren't they crazy? [66 words]saraApr 14, 2012 19:27194948
1It's Not Road Rage, It's Terrorism [96 words]Steven LApr 3, 2012 16:32194944
2In Reality - It is Rage - It is Just Not Limited to the Road [444 words]M. ToveyApr 3, 2012 15:51194942
1Investiagtors And Courts Need To Take The Blinders Off [75 words]RedvixenApr 3, 2012 14:00194937
Yes, that is what the author is proposing [32 words]saraApr 4, 2012 18:10194937
An article close to my heart.....on several levels [89 words]Adina Kutnicki, IsraelApr 3, 2012 12:55194933
The Opening of Jihad by a non-Muslim Arab Immigrant from Palestine. [359 words]Wallace Edward BrandApr 3, 2012 23:36194933
1The (initial) Opening Of Jihad On US Soil..... [157 words]Adina Kutnicki, IsraelApr 5, 2012 01:14194933
Terrorists are not insane [115 words]stevenMar 21, 2012 03:38194616

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