Yes free bee, study full Islam. Let us begin now and clear the confusion. Lesson 1

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jun 8, 2007 at 04:20

Hello Free bee, your wrote to Romesh:

"Study Full Islam. Studying part of Islam and then getting confused is very easy.

And that seems to be your problem.

Imam Malik said, if a Muslims moves to a non-Muslim country he must be a Dayee (invitor to Islam and Allah), if he is not a Dayee, then its better for him to go back"

It has been seen that those who do not submit to that fatwa of Imam Malik usually go off the right track."

You are right. Now tell us, since theres is such a vast literature on Islam, which ones you accept. The Shia or Sunni versions. Which of the hadises do you consider reliable and how do you choose among the fantastic or horror stories about the Prophet listed in them. Which biography of the Prophet is reliable. Ibn Ishaaq, Tabari, Waqidi, Ibn Khatir, Ibn Saad, Haykal, Mubarakpuri?

You have given us one fatwa from Imam Malik. What about his other fatwas. Are they also to be followed. What about your other imams?

Answer some of these questions and we can go forward with a discussion on Islam the religion of "peace and submission".

It is frustrating to discuss religion with Muslims. You keep shifting the goal post or go into a sort of catanonic denial.

The Koran has warned you: 40:4 None argue concerning the revelations of Allah save those who disbelieve, so let not their turn of fortune in the land deceive thee (O Muhammad) .

Free bee, if you argue about the revelations then you are automatically a disbeliever. So what is your solution to carry on with your debate here without bringing down Allah's wrath upon your head? Bring in the context of this verse and shove it aside?

Since you approvingly quote Imam Malik let us take a peek at some of Imam Malik's links to the hadises and rulings.

14 Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab from 'Ubaydullah ibn 'Abdullah ibn 'Utba ibn Mas'ud from Abu Hurayra and Zayd ibn Khalid al-Juhani that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, was asked about a slave-girl who committed fornication and was not muhsana. He said, "If she commits fornication, then flog her. If she commits fornication again, then flog her, and if she commits fornication yet again, then sell her, if only for a rope."

A human reduced to the value of a rope. For what? For fornication, committed due to an Allah given instinct. [cf Bukhari 2046]

41.1 Stoning

1 Malik related to me from Nafi' that 'Abdullah ibn 'Umar said, "The Jews came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and mentioned to him that a man and woman from among them had committed adultery. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, asked them, 'What do you find in the Torah about stoning?' They said, 'We make their wrong action known and flog them.' 'Abdullah ibn Salam said, 'You have lied! It is stoning for it, so bring the Torah!' They spread it out and one of them placed his hand over the verse of stoning. Then he read what was before and after it. 'Abdullah ibn Salam told him to lift his hand. He lifted his hand and there was the verse of stoning. They said, 'He has spoken the truth, Muhammad. The verse of stoning is in it.' So the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave the order and they were stoned."

'Abdullah ibn 'Umar added, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to protect her from the stones."

[In Bukhari and Muslim]

Malik commented, "By 'leaning' he meant throwing himself over her so that the stones fell on him."

Your Imam Malik seems to be taking some malicious pleasure with that incident that snuffed out the lives of a very loving couple. Can you picture that scene, free bee. Does that kind of love bring tears to your eyes? How low can a religion fall?

41.4 Rape

Malik said, "The position with us about a woman who is found to be pregnant and has no husband and she says, 'I was forced,' or she says, 'I was married,' is that it is not accepted from her and the hadd is inflicted on her unless she has clear evidence of what she claims about the marriage or being forced or if she comes bleeding if she was a virgin or she calls out for help so that someone comes to her and she is in that state or what resembles of it of the situation in which the violation occurred." He said, "If she does not produce any of those, the hadd is inflicted on her and whatever such claims she makes are not accepted from her." [http://bewley.virtualave.net/muw16.html#hudud ]

This is your Imam Malik's ruling on what happens to a raped woman. And this is the basis for what happens to raped girls from poor families in Islamic countries. Does a rich landlord bring in four witnesses to his crime when he is raping his farmhand's daughter? What a shameful law. Why do Muslims not have the courage to denounce this great lawgivers ruling???

Plato

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