To free bee: Islam threatens kafirs with death

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jun 11, 2007 at 00:47

free bee you are in inverted commas:

---"This is a humble clarification for you and others who misunderstand the Quran.

---Firstly, When Allah said about the disbelievers as an-Najas (unclean) He is referring to those Kuffars of Makkah who worshiped over 300 dieties. The verse clearly speaks about them NOT YOU !

"What about the Hindus and animists of today of which I could be one. They worship plenty of gods and nature. Are they or I unclean? Or are only the Kuffars of Makkah being derided as unclean for worshipping 300 gods. If that is so then you can crosss this verse out of the Koran as of no relevance today. There should be no problem worshipping like the Hindus of today. Right or wrong, free bee??"

---They were given 4 months by Allah to evacuate from Makkah otherwise face death. Remember that these are the Kuffars who waged war against Allah and His prophet for over 13 years. But Allah is still Merciful to them and still giving them 4 months to either humble themselves to al Islam or GO AWAY. Didn't we in America put all the innocent Japanese-Americans in the concentration camps during WWII? Was it OK even though they were not fighting a war with us in America?

---"The true face of Islam revealed. Do as I say or die. People who venerated those idols for generations are threatened with death for worshiping their gods. Very courteous, very generous of Islam! But remember that practically every Meccan had seen the light of Islam when the Prophet and his venerable companions held their swords over their heads. So this verse is meant for the tribes who used to come to pay their respects to their favourite idols.

Free bee, the Meccans did not wage war against Allah and his prophet for 13 years. On the contrary, the Prophet insulted and abused what was sacred to them for 13 years and the tolerant, courteous, generous Kuffar let him be except for occasional complaints when his preaching became intolerable. The Prophet was well protected by Kuffar who were family members from any Meccan who found his preaching too much to bear. Why did your co-religionists rampage across the world killing when your sacred symbol, the Prophet, was mildly lampooned?

You have exposed your idea of what Islam is with: ' giving them 4 months to either humble themselves to al Islam or GO AWAY'. Well supposing the US government told you to humble yourself by declaring you must totally subject yourself to the US constitution or GO AWAY to some Islamic paradise, what will you do?

Yes, the Americans did sequester the Japanese during world war II. They never threatened them with death. And now they are endlessly agonising over it, probably even paid them compensation. But what do Muslims do? They celebrate to this day the 'sanitisation' of Mecca and other holy places by not allowing kaffirs to come anywhere near the black stone so beloved of Allah.

---"Tell me honestly didn't Moses fight Wars, Didn't he Kill people? It is shameful for me to give an example of a Honored Prophet Moses. But how will you understand?
Doesn't Bible clearly say: IF someone comes to you claiming another god then ME, then Kill Him?"

Moses did. Don't be ashamed. All your Prophets, except maybe Adam and Jesus killed people. Noah even petitioned Allah to kill everyone who did not believe in Him. And I understand. Monotheistic religions, of the Middle Eastern variety are designed to breed killers of so-called unbelievers.

---2. Not making Yahood and Christions the friends: Believe me, I have more Yahoodi and Chirstian friends then you can imagine. This verses' commentary will clearly tell you that the word used here is "auliya", which does not mean friend, but a very very very close confidant protecting friend. So in a war I am NOT supposed to take you as a Protecting-friend. (Remember Quran was revealed during the war days)"

I have no knowledge of Arabic, so I can't comment on auliya, may be dhimmi no more can help. But what you say makes no sense. Allah must have a pretty poor opinion of the slaves he has created to believe that they will seek protection from their enemies during war. You are just being disingenous, free bee. When you say that Koran was revealed during war days you fail to mention that most of those were at the behest of Allah himself for gaining booty and converts. Read: 48:18 Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance unto thee beneath the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down peace of reassurance on them, and hath rewarded them with a near victory; 48:19 And much booty that they will capture. Allah is ever Mighty, Wise. 48:20 Allah promiseth you much booty that ye will capture,

---"3. Jizya- This is NOT a humiliation tax on non-muslims as you say. It is actually designed to get money from the able bodied Christian/ Jews and then spent it on the Old, weak and poor Christian/Jews. So their money is NOT to be used by the Muslim, but by themselves on themselves. There are Many examples during the lifetime of Khalifah Omar (dhimmi preferrs al-khalifa) . He even beat one of his treasurer when he delayed some money to an old Jewish man in Madinah- please go and confirm this from any Islamic Scholar. Omer told the treasurer: "You take money from them when they are young so you can spend on them when they are old. Do not delay their money to them otherwise Allah's wrath will be upon you"

free bee now read:

048.029 YUSUFALI: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other....

009.029 YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Free bee, here is your Koran instructing you to be hard against the unbelievers. In your language does being 'hard' really mean soft? And what does 9:29 say? Pay the Jiziya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. Can anyone do that with pride? You prophet followed his Allah closely. He took 50 per cent of the produce of the Banu Nadir. He took all the land of the Banu Qaynuka. He took the women and children of the Banu Quraiza. That is humiliating them and being hard. Go to: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html and read what the Khalifah, Omar, you have mentioned has to say about dhimmidom. It is written as though the Christians were trying to humiliate themselves. If you believe they wrote it without any coercion you will believe anything.

The nice story of the old Jewish man, can you please let me know the source. It goes against the nature of Omar, who was ever ready to behead at the drop of a turban.

Free bee you also have no comments on the various murders of the Prophet's critics at the instigation of the Rasool himself or the deprivation of rights of non-Muslims in Islamic countries."

---"By the way for your Info. THERE IS NO JIZYA IMPLIED ON NON-MUSLIMS IN ANY OF THE MUSLIMS COUNTRIES OF THIS WORLD !!"

You know why Muslim countries are not doing that. They will become pariahs to the rest of the world and they would be forced to rescind any such tax. Just as Muslim countries with slavery were forced to banish slavery which is so casually accepted without any sense of shame in the Koran.

---"Thanks and I hope it was helpful."

Thank you too, for giving us an insight into Muslim thinking.

Plato

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".