Our dearAyaz and the hadith and other sordid matters part trois

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Mar 15, 2008 at 08:19

Our dear Ayaz wrote

>Authentic documented hadiths:

Really? Now if we look at the sources of many of those so called hadith sahih you will find the name of 3A'isha and Ibn 3Abbas. Now 3Ai'sha was 18 years old when Muhammad died in 632 CE. This means that she was born in 614 CE and Muhammad married her when she was 6 years old or in 620 CE but she did not move into his home until she ws 9 years old or the year 623CE therefore I must conclude that she cannot be regarded as an authority about any thing that took place in the so called Meccan period. Now we are also told that Muhammad had 23 wives and concubines which means that in his 10 years in Medina he was splitting his time among 23 women this means that he only spent 158 days/nights with our dear 3Ai'sha and then what does a 9 or 10 or 11 or 12 or 13 or 14 years old child know or understand? Not very much. So much for 3Ai'sha being a source of the Hadith.

Ibn 3Abbas? He hardly knew Muhammad. We are told that he died in either 687CE or 693CE and only allahu a3lam. This means that he died about 60 years after the death of Muhammad. This is at a time when the life span was not more than 35 years! The chances are he never knew Muhammad!

So much for the authentic hadith

>The Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet MUhammed(PBUH) during a period of 23 years.

Really? So when was he born? 3Am al-feel? Think again, because the source of this fantasy is the untrustworthy Islamic historical tradition

> Who else do you think this aya is refering to?

I do not know. You tell me that is must be Muhammad. All I'm asking you is: where is the evidence?

>certainly not you or anyone else for that matter......

How do you know? If there was a mercy sent to this world it must be the likes of the Budhha or the Christ or even Ghandi or even mother Teresa. Muhammad? he was a caravan raider and an Arabian warlord.

>consequence of his birth, choice of the Al-mighty.

But I told you that Allah spoke to me via an angel called Gabriel and I have a book for you. Why should you not believe me? So much for Muslim fantasy

>It is rather like you are denying the existence of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) even though he is extensively documented and acknowledged around the world.

But I told you that I exist and Allah spoke to me so why would you not believe that Allah spoke to me too?

>His miracle is the Qur'an itself because he could not make such astounding statements while he could not read nor write.

Bogus. The Qur'an that you cannot read in Arabic is nothing but poor literature. It is a confused and confusing book that is full of strange words and mistakes in grammar, spelling and syntax and many non Arabic words. You cannot even reconstruct the life of Mhammad by reading the Qur'an alone. So much for the claim that the Qur'an is a kitab mubeen maktub bi 3Arabi faseeh.

As for the question: was Muhammad illetrate? Well in Q96 it says:

Iqra'

If you read this word as read (yaqra' or he reads) then Muhammad must have been able to read, then you have a problem with Q7:157-18 as you shall see below

In actual fact the word Iqra' means recite (root QR') because how could you ask some one to read when he cannot read?

But the ignorant 3Ulama read the word ummi in Q7:157:158 as the uneducated

al-rasul al-nabi al-ummi

Or: the prophet, the prophet (read the word al-nabi as the prophet that belongs to the Biblical prophets who were Jewish) the GENTILE (or non Jewish)

So you see our dear Ayaz it is either that Muhammad was able to read as it says in Q96 or that he was indeed Jahil or uneducated or ummi as per Q7:157-158! So which one is it our dear Ayaz?

Therefore I must conlcude that the Qur'an that opaque revelation is saying that Muhammad was instructed to recite and that he was a gentile nabi. You did not get it: Did you?

>Islam is not about being arab, far from it......

Then why does the Qur'an say

wa ma arsalna min rasulan ila bilisani qawmuhu?

>Allah says in the Qur'an: O mankind! Lo! We have created you from male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. Q49:13

Let me see it says:

ya ayuha al-nass blah....blah....blah...

Or: O you people. Your translation is poor. The word al-bashar means mankind and if the aya would have been: ya ayuha al-bashar will will have a case.

And what does the aya have to do with he fact that the Quran syas that islam is the religion of the Arabs?

>This means that the division of human beings into nations, races, groups and tribes is for the sake of distinction,

Correct and this is why your Allah says that he sent 120,000 rusul (pl of rasul) to various nations. Remember the hadith literature that you are fond of quoting?

>so that people of one race or tribe may meet and be acquainted with people belonging to another race or tribe and co-operate with one another.

And your Allah also says that he sends a rasul li kul umma (Q10:47 or prophet to every nation) hadd (guide) (Q13:8) nadhir (Q35:24) shahidan (Q28:75) which is more evidecne that Muhammad was sent as rasul, hadd, nadhir, shahid to his people the Hijazi Arabs. So who was the rasul that was sent to your qawm our dear Ayaz because he ain't Muhammad.

Snip Islamic pablum

> This has been thus exemplified by the Prophet (blessings of Allah and peace be upon him) in one of his sayings: "No Arab has any superiority over a non-Arab, nor does a non-Arab have any superiority over a black man, or the black man any superiority over the white man. You are all the children of Adam, and Adam was created from clay." (Bayhaqi and Bazzaz).

This tradtion is an example of why we should not believe the Islamic sources as this tradition is anachronistic

>......by the way did i read that its my turn to apologise to you for calling you a liar? hold on does that mean that you have apologised to me for being abusive and making rascist remarks such as 'PAKI',

Pakistani is a raciist remark? really? but you are a Paki! OK let us have a deal: you get other Muslims to stop calling Jews Quruud wa khnazeer as your Allah calls them and I will not use the word Pakistani. Deal?

>'TABLIGHEE'

But you are a tablighee or Muslim missionary. So are here trying to "invite" us to islam or not? If yes then you are a tablighee and if no this still does not change the fact that you are a tablighee.

>and 'PUT UP OR SHUT UP'.

And what is wrong with such response to your little game about quoting Q14:5 instead of Q14:4 hoping that I will not notice and then you called me a liar.

>because if thats the case i have not heard any apology and if you decide to i will accept it, but i am not going to apologise to you for calling you a liar as i am not an apologetic when it comes to the truth.

What truth? that islam is the religion of the Arabs and you ain't no Arab? or that you are a tablighee? or that you are here defending Arabian imperialism that brutalized your Hindu ancestors?

> You make false accusations about Islam by twisting words to suit you...

What false accusations? That you cannot read Arabic or that Muhammad was an Arabian warlord and caravan raider? and why do you live in England?Why not in Saudi Arabia?

But you can porve me wrong. Alla you did so far is you called me a liar

>and guess what i'm not even pakistani and doesnt even really matter.

Really? with a name like Ayaz you ain't no Arab

And Islam and Arabian imperialism will be defeated in the market place of ideas.

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