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More on the Upper Room Discourse - Jesus' Love is Unconditional - Salvation the Guarantee

Reader comment on item: U.S.-Pakistan Relations in Decline
in response to reader comment: Jesus also taught: Salvation is Conditional.

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Jun 9, 2011 at 13:30

To the contrary, Jesus did not teach conditional salvation, but the condition of mankind needing salvation. To make the further point, salvation is not to be acquired, but is received, eliminating the idea that acquisition may be the result of some work on the part of the recipient. Jesus Christ took the work of redeeming mankind upon Himself on the cross, thus making a perfect guarantee that when the confession of faith is expressed by the individual, the promise of eternity for that new creature is perfected. One of the hazards of taking some part of a verse string and setting it out to make a special point is that out of context, the full understanding is lost for the micro examination of a macro Biblical truth. Pulling John 15:14 out of the entire upper room discourse is like catching a minnow in a sea of albacore and saying, 'look how big a fish I caught.' Recognizing that the upper room contained embryonic faith of who Jesus Christ is and what He would become to the world, His words were careful in bringing heretofore unknown understanding of what the Hebrew Holy Bible had written about Him. Yet, to know Him, one needed to allow Him into the inner reaches of the mind and more especially, the heart.

Thus, He started earlier in the discourse by making the invitation to abide in Him (John 15:4). The Iscariot, a follower, but not a faith believer, did not get that message. The conditional aspect can be attributed to the inherent sinful condition of man, which in these temporal bodies of sin is manifest in the only part of humanity that Almighty God initially interfaces, the conscience. In the conscience, men, women and children have that access to Almighty God, in 'free choice.' Choose to act in faith in Jesus Christ, and the condition is met to allow the Holy Spirit to act in response. The response of the Holy Spirit is guaranteed, not conditional. Salvation, when entered into between a believer and the Holy Spirit, can never be revoked. So when Jesus is making the statement using 'if,' He is recognizing the frailty of the human spirit that strays from abiding and cannot make it spiritually alone, and gives the other part of the equation that when we seek Him out, He responds unconditionally. (John 15:5-8) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing. If a man abides not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is My Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be My disciples.

This necessity of the true disciple in abiding in Jesus Christ through His Holy Spirit is essential Christianity, something that is lost in the mainstream denominational Christianesque world. This is because of many reasons, but there is a proximal cause. After the immediate time of Christ and the last of the writings to the churches were written, it is found in the subsequent dissentions of the denominations (a splitting process started in the early church-such as the divergence of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy-seeds of which were planted even earlier by dissentions of variant dogmas). Since it is written that only in the spirit is there unity in faith in the inerrant WORD of the LORD, it remains to this day that denominational factionalism does not leave room for the Spirit to function, and so there is the resultant loss of true guidance in modern mainstream Christianity. Therein lays the necessity of the disciple of Jesus Christ to abide in Him. Therein the assurance is perfected and the ability to discern what is and is not direction of the Holy Spirit is provided by the Holy Spirit Himself, by the promise of Jesus Christ. The letter to the Romans points to this very thing: Romans 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. But finish the context of the John 15 quote (verses 10-17): "As the Father hath loved Me, so have I loved you: continue ye in My love. If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is My commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knows not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another." Jesus concludes: (John 15:26,27): "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning."

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Reader comments (82) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2No space for Pakistan on this website [122 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
B.N.GururajMay 18, 2011 00:27185322
Stepping Stones to a Greater Threat [277 words]M. ToveyMay 23, 2011 19:17185322
The Stick to Dance the Lion! [23 words]Mohammad Mansoor Ali AnsariOct 14, 2011 03:13185322
US PAKISTAN REALTIONS IN DECLINE [209 words]IsaacMay 15, 2011 04:29185210
Counterfeit Christians [229 words]kerusso alethesMay 12, 2011 15:21185148
1What the TRUTH of the WORD of the LORD Declares [554 words]M. ToveyMay 20, 2011 18:21185148
Truth versus Fiction [58 words]kerusso alethesMay 23, 2011 13:58185148
A Book of Human Logic Cannot Counter What Holy Spirit has Declared Truth by the Word of Jesus Christ. [24 words]M. ToveyMay 23, 2011 19:21185148
Hebrew Holy Bible Contains No Fiction [103 words]M. ToveyMay 24, 2011 19:23185148
Authenticity [319 words]kerusso alethesMay 26, 2011 15:37185148
Paul the Corrupter [174 words]kerusso alethesMay 27, 2011 13:16185148
Authenticity of Paul Provided By the Holy Spirit [871 words]M. ToveyMay 31, 2011 14:31185148
The parakletos and Paul? [456 words]kerusso alethesJun 2, 2011 12:40185148
Getting Scripture Right by the Words of Jesus Christ [292 words]M. ToveyJun 2, 2011 18:27185148
Jesus also taught: Salvation is Conditional. [181 words]kerusso alethesJun 6, 2011 08:38185148
More on the Upper Room Discourse - Jesus' Love is Unconditional - Salvation the Guarantee [976 words]M. ToveyJun 9, 2011 13:30185148
Without Paul — [185 words]kerusso alethesJun 10, 2011 14:55185148
One Gospel Only - To Be Preached To All the World - To Pakistan and Everywhere [830 words]M. ToveyJun 13, 2011 15:54185148
Confusion; the real enemy. [405 words]kerusso alethesJun 17, 2011 12:27185148
1Tooled Against Confusion - Ephesians 6:10-17 [636 words]M. ToveyJul 5, 2011 13:11185148
Hardy Hatred. [802 words]kerusso alethesJul 19, 2011 21:19185148
1Paul's Authentication Scripturally Sound - By His Demonstrated Love for Jesus Christ [779 words]M. ToveyJul 21, 2011 19:15185148
By thy words … [465 words]kerusso alethesJul 25, 2011 14:12185148
By the WORD of the LORD [230 words]M. ToveyJul 25, 2011 18:25185148
Pakistan and Terrorism [165 words]Frank LukeMay 10, 2011 21:28185088
1Declare Pakistan a 'Terrorist State" [189 words]kamekishMay 9, 2011 02:31185042
Containment of Pakistan? [60 words]Kepha HorMay 8, 2011 20:20185030
U.S.-Pakistan Relations in Decline - comment [17 words]richardMay 8, 2011 18:48185027
2Taliban will retake Afghanistan [156 words]Leonard MarkowitzMay 7, 2011 17:56185000
Perhaps, but... [69 words]Peter HerzMay 8, 2011 20:07185000
Pakistan and Afganistan and the USA [8 words]richardMay 10, 2011 01:46185000
Good [31 words]DiplomadMay 7, 2011 17:55184999
2The Pakistan Conundrum [143 words]Frank LukeMay 5, 2011 20:15184929
Time to recover the cost of terrorism from Pak Military [123 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 8, 2011 04:05184929
1Today Pakistan - From Whence the Next Enigma - The American Dilemma [821 words]M. ToveyMay 10, 2011 12:11184929
9Wishful Thinking [223 words]Shadi KatyalMay 5, 2011 10:04184912
5I agree, leaving any remnant of that helicopter was a grave error in judgement [70 words]saraMay 5, 2011 18:54184912
Good point [243 words]VijayMay 9, 2011 08:23184912
us pakistan relationson the decline [134 words]Isaac FlaksMay 5, 2011 09:48184911
1living with illusions [4 words]aniaMay 5, 2011 06:41184903
1Time for an American Awakening [133 words]Benjamin MedvedMay 5, 2011 00:42184894
The world community failed to detect OBL, Pakistan alone is not to be blamed. [176 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 8, 2011 04:40184894
U.S.-Pakistan Relations in Decline [11 words]SolMay 4, 2011 23:38184890
2Pakistan not allies [97 words]Lorenz GudeMay 4, 2011 23:10184889
For Bad over Good [41 words]Jay1May 4, 2011 22:03184887
1Priorities!!!!!!! [57 words]Susan SomervilleMay 4, 2011 21:23184884
2Pakistan-American Enemy [61 words]John WrightMay 4, 2011 21:07184882
there is difference [13 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 7, 2011 13:54184882
Now recover damages from Pakistan [307 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 7, 2011 14:09184882
1U.S. Pakistan Relations Decline...How could they not know? response to John Wright. [98 words]Anne- USAMay 9, 2011 13:31184882
1rue [5 words]richardMay 10, 2011 01:48184882
2What do they say in URDU. [123 words]batya daganMay 4, 2011 20:19184877
Now recover damages from Pakistan, stop Charity is not enogh. [431 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 7, 2011 14:29184877
1+I will never forget what they did to Mumbai. [122 words]batya daganMay 8, 2011 18:27184877
Reality check [82 words]Rebecca MouldsMay 4, 2011 20:10184876
All Pakistanis are enemy [30 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 7, 2011 14:05184876
1Contain Islam. [103 words]Charlie GriffithMay 4, 2011 20:09184875
Is it Religion or disease? [59 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 8, 2011 05:10184875
1We Indians should attack Pak ASAP and get all the terrorists [105 words]adam eveMay 4, 2011 19:43184874
2The Case For Pakistan [216 words]John in Michigan, USAMay 4, 2011 18:46184872
Russian Paranoia !!! [71 words]Carlos de SouzaMay 4, 2011 23:10184872
1Not paranoia, just skepticism [281 words]John in Michigan, USAMay 5, 2011 23:31184872
10The one thing that REALLY Scares the Pakistanis [106 words]Richard BenkinMay 4, 2011 18:20184870
3Kepp India out of this Pakistani quagmire. [71 words]KamathMay 5, 2011 08:56184870
Once upon a time [27 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 7, 2011 14:00184870
Pipe's comments [6 words]SydMay 4, 2011 18:17184869
1Diplomatic Quid Pro Quo [23 words]DavidMay 4, 2011 18:03184867
Majority of Pashtuns Already Disaffected - Why Does the US Still Try? How Many Megatons Does 4,5 Bil Buy? [62 words]M. ToveyMay 4, 2011 12:17184861
4Pakistan As Danger Zone [81 words]Virginia GentlemanMay 4, 2011 08:32184851
2SINK or SWIM [101 words]Carolina AngelMay 5, 2011 08:49184851
9Pakistan is our enemy and it should be declared as a terrorist state [116 words]dhimmi no moreMay 4, 2011 06:48184848
2But is that practical, dhimmi no more? [195 words]Aymenn Jawad Al-TamimiMay 7, 2011 12:46184848
Blame Game is national Game of Pakistan [124 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 7, 2011 14:34184848
What Muhammad did to Khaibar [230 words]TedMay 7, 2011 16:42184848
3Salvation history [742 words]dhimmi no moreMay 8, 2011 11:26184848
2Pakistan is a terrorist state [525 words]dhimmi no moreMay 9, 2011 06:21184848
1Q78:31-34 [338 words]dhimmi no moreJun 30, 2011 19:47184848
slight correction [20 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2011 06:06184848
8Anything positive in Pakistan [169 words]TedMay 4, 2011 01:33184839
Now recover damages from Pakistan, stop Charity is not enogh. [17 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiMay 7, 2011 14:45184839
6Time for Truth [612 words]Fred BaehrMay 4, 2011 00:55184836
2Always [28 words]Michael SharpMay 3, 2011 23:41184833

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