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Alexis de Tocqueville and Turkey

Reader comment on item: The Religious Roots of Turkey's Currency Crisis

Submitted by Dave (United States), Dec 30, 2021 at 07:42

When he visited America, Alexis de Tocqueville formed the belief that democracy could become a form of tyranny. His concluded that a government which was directly elected could be tainted by the same prejudices and limitations of the populace that elected it and could therefore be more unjust and tyrannical than a government controlled by an enlightened elite, as in Europe. He pointed to the example of the northern states excluding voting rights for freed slaves. Without getting too involved in details, there is something to be said for his view that an elected government is only as good, or bad, as the people electing it.

Despite his later slide into despotism, Erdogan was originally elected, so one must conclude that his Islamist beliefs are shared by a large portion of Turkish society. Whether his subsequent actions, including the savaging of the Turkish economy, are still popular, is somewhat doubtful, although it's probable that a significant chunk of the populace could still be characterized as bitter clingers when it comes to Islamic principles.

The Turkish experience shows that de Tocqueville's skepticism about democracy is well taken, particularly when dealing with a Muslim majority country, and that the years of military rule in Turkey could be viewed as preferable. We could have saved a lot of trouble had we realized all this before undertaking our naive crusade for the democratization of Iraq and Afghanistan, but we should be better prepared going forward.

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Daniel Pipes replies:

True, except that you are using the word democracy to mean a system of voting. These days, however, it is generally used to mean political participation in general, including minority rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech, loyal opposition, and so on. Understood that way, democracy is not a path to dictatorship.

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Reader comments (27) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Extra: "Turkey's Erdogan says he will visit Saudi Arabia in February" [209 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertJan 3, 2022 16:00277965
Seeking Restoration Away From Western Influences - Turkiye's Battle for Significance [149 words]M ToveyJan 6, 2022 12:34277965
1If Turkey's Islamic fiscal policy is sinking its currency, why didn't that happen to past Islamic societies? [48 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MR MathewsJan 1, 2022 17:13277935
1Islamic Banking Began in Pakistan in the 1950's. [501 words]RobertJan 2, 2022 18:35277935
Islamic Commerce Not Confined to Caravans Anymore [87 words]M ToveyJan 3, 2022 10:24277935
1Central or National Banking in Turkey Under Erdogan [237 words]RobertJan 3, 2022 13:03277935
Points of Interest In Islamic Banking [105 words]M ToveyJan 3, 2022 17:18277935
Agree with M Tovey but I want to add something. [149 words]PrashantJan 4, 2022 16:48277935
Further Proposition of World Finance Models Competition When Coorperation is Indicated [256 words]M ToveyJan 5, 2022 11:02277935
Trade Deficit Is the Last Fundamental Problem [338 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David RyanDec 31, 2021 00:28277901
Tentacles of Turkey's Lost Secularism are Hard to Sever [141 words]M ToveyDec 31, 2021 17:20277901
1Erdogan's Internation Isolation and "Dialectical" Recent Change [506 words]RobertJan 1, 2022 13:18277901
2Interest vs. Profit [101 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertDec 30, 2021 11:06277876
1Interest is the cost of money. [33 words]PrashantDec 30, 2021 15:02277876
1Infation and It's Cost [215 words]RobertDec 31, 2021 09:16277876
2A Penny Saved is a Penny Earned [80 words]RenoxJan 1, 2022 11:49277876
1Creative Islamic Banking - Replacing Interest with Profit [556 words]RobertJan 1, 2022 16:18277876
1Sharia makes did not understand how money works [177 words]PrashantJan 1, 2022 17:18277876
Middle East Finances Governed by Ancient Rules - Prohibited Under Religious Precepts [126 words]M ToveyJan 1, 2022 17:43277876
1Alexis de Tocqueville and Turkey [241 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
DaveDec 30, 2021 07:42277873
1Insightful response [62 words]PrashantDec 30, 2021 17:42277873
1Charles-Louis de Secondat, Baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu and American Exceptionalism [463 words]RobertDec 31, 2021 10:30277873
Liberal Democracy is often not realistic [239 words]DaveJan 3, 2022 10:31277873
Prerequisites of democracy [85 words]JeffJan 3, 2022 18:45277873
Certain choices must be withdrawn from Muslims [202 words]PrashantJan 4, 2022 11:28277873
What would be a "reasonable" interest rate in a country with a 21% inflation rate? [27 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Lan AstaslemDec 29, 2021 23:33277860
Mr. Erdoğan's "What Our Religion Tells Us" - Unique Unto Himself [230 words]M ToveyDec 29, 2021 21:11277858

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