Talking points, pillars, quibbles, quotes, examples, and some words of wisdom from the kennedys.

Submitted by moderate Muslim (United States), Mar 13, 2007 at 19:32

I think that you just admitted that Malaysia is peaceful. What you dont seem to understand is, Islam is not a country, like Saudi Arabia, it is not a race, like caucasian, it is not a culture, like Pashtu, it is a religion, a set of moral practices, and it does not discriminate against race, culture, or country. I would have no problem if all Muslims were white, or black, or hispanic, or asian, or whatever, I am not going to be judged by some fools. Every group has fools in it. On this point we fundamentally disagree, and if I stop posting, you will claim victory, and you cant imagine how much I dont care.

The basic pillars of Islam are

Shahada- to bear witness that their are no Gods but God and that Muhammad(pbuh) is the servant and messenger of Allah.

Salat- To pray five times a day

Zakat- To give the poor due, to give charity to the needy.

Hajj- the pilgrimage a Muslim must make if able to do so to Makkah.

Sawm- or if dhimmi goes crazy, siyam, the fasting to remind one of the plight of the needy, only if one is able to

These are the basic tenets of Islam, and no one can say there is anything wrong with these.

Anyone who wants to see something negative can find it, no matter if it is there or not. I would stress that any holy book has verses which could be construed out of context as negative. The purpose of this forum is not to quibble for pages over the meaning of ayat, though ayat are important, the main focus is to establish whether or not the main tenants of Islam are wrong, and they are not.

I could find pages of stuff from the Bible which to me looks horrible and uncouth, but I am not looking, because while Christians have commited atrocities in the name of God, I know that most Christians condemn these things. I know that while some Muslims make Jihad unlawfully and do unspeakable things, that is not the face of Islam.

What I am trying to say is that this ...mentality and mindset, is a reactionary measure against a threat. And as is true in all reactions, things get radical. Take, for example, the Reformation, a reaction to it was the Spanish inquisition, or the Cold War, causing a McCarthian reaction against all Socialists, or percieved Socialists. McCarthy would be clapping and bowing to these posters, who so flawlessly support his politics of fear, and who would wish to subvert law just as much as he did.

It is an easy thing to fear, but it is hard to stand up for somone who you do not have to, and have justice be done. If everyone reacted like dhimmi no more, no one would challenge the status quo. Instead of a Civil War there would have been slaves in Boston, instead of undermining Soviet Russia and bringing peace, we would have launched a first strike.

People today exaggerate the threat facing America. They say, "we are fighting for the survival of our nation here". They are not. The most lethal terrorist attack killed a few thousand people, and while every loss of life should be grieved, this did not end western civilization. One nuke, or four, could not end Western Civilization. The only thing that could end Western Civilization, as well as All Civilization, would be a nuclear war, which the Muslim world is not capable of, even if they so willed, starting.

The only way to start a nuclear war is to provoke a fight between two countries, and with the exception of Pakistan, not a single Muslim country has this capability, and surely none has the power to launch and hit the US.

I would close with the words of a man who served his country well, the late John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

For a while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been -- and may someday be again -- a Jew, or a Quaker, or a Unitarian, or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that led to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today, I may be the victim, but tomorrow it may be you -- until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped apart at a time of great national peril.

and additonally, which perhaps pertains even more, the words of Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy

For those of you who are black — considering the evidence evidently is that there were white people who were responsible — you can be filled with bitterness, and with hatred, and a desire for revenge. We can move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization — black people amongst blacks, and white amongst whites, filled with hatred toward one another. Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand, and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion and love.

To paraphrase-

For those of you who are non Muslim-considering the evidence evidently that there were Muslims who were responsible-you can be filled with bitterness, and with hatred, and a desire for revenge. We can move in that direction as a country, or even as a world, in greater polarization--muslims amongst muslims, and non Muslims amongst non Muslims, filled with hatred towards one another. Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand, and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion and love.

That is what I have to say, about that.

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