Krista

Submitted by K.H. Ahmed (United States), Jun 9, 2008 at 11:51

Krista,

Your statement regarding Mr. Mansur relates directly to the quote you cited in my response to sTs. You stated Mr. Mansur is a devout Muslim who attacks the actions of radical Muslims without as I think you are saying speaking to the beauty of Islam. While I am not a devout Muslim I agree totally with that position - there is no need to speak to religion when asserting that these terrorist actions are wrong - they are without allusion to religion, without aspersion upon religion fundamentally wrong.

For me it is fundamentally wrong to defend or support a position based upon religion - it is fundamentally counterproductive to insert the issue of religion when discussing issues outside of religion - politics and the issues related to it are outside the purview of religion. When the Federal Building in Oklahoma City was bombed I didn't think of their religion - I thought of the perpertrators as criminals - they would argue they did it for God and Christianity but I no more accept that argument from them then I accept the arguement that 9/11 was for Islam. I have not and do not argue in favor or in opposition to Islam - my argument is that people fundamentally misunderstand the problem and excaberate the problem by attacking Islam. Ergo my quote to sTs t, (but I do not understand why you wrote...."You speak no differently than the individual that you attack")

that when he leaps to the defense of Islam In a relgious, non-rational manner he is acting the same as the people who attack his faith. The quote was not aimed at you in particular but to the numerous responses that he has given to others and I have made that statement to many other Muslims on this site and on others.

As to my difficulties with the argument that Mr. Obama lied about being a Muslim - For me the argument that has been made for this position is an Argumentum ad Ignorantium and is merely a reflection of the writers opposition to the person. Outside of attaching a perjorative against the person it serves no real purpose - and what is the perjorative - if one believes that the writer is attempting to state Mr. Obama is dishonest I think you are kidding yourself as to the writers pure motives - the fact is the perjorative is purely attaching the Muslim moniker to the individual.

The main thrust of this argument being that if we as an american culture are going to stigmatize Islam - then we are in for an unnecessarily protracted struggle with an entire civilization - if on the other hand we are opposed to terrorism we are then able to focus our attention on the real enemies of both cultures. My argument is not about my goodness or lack thereof, the argument is one of pragmatism.

As was stated if we take religion and history out of the equation... and with this I agree - religion and history must be removed from the equation if dialogue is to take place. It is the great whole, the great fallacy of the argument of the people of the Middle East, they too make it an arguement about the goodness or evil of Islam - it is neither, it is a political argument - a "real politik" argument not a religious one - So I say to sTs he speaks like those who speak to him - out of religion not out of facts - I would argue that my position sits in the middle - I recognize your concerns but I also recognize sTs concerns - that simply put if sTs and yourself discussed what is the root cause of the hostility of many in the MIddle East and neither was allowed to discuss religion I believe after a period of time you would come to a mutual agreement as to the problems of the area. The problem is to get sTs and those he is in conversation with to quit discussing religion.

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