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Q17:1

Reader comment on item: More on the Muslim Claim to Jerusalem

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 27, 2008 at 13:16

Very interesting indeed and thank you Dr. Pipes for great information which I did not notice before

Well Quran 17:1 says: subhana al-ladhi aasraayi bi 3abdihu laylaan (i3rab) min al-masjad al-haram ila al-masjad al-aqsa and it means: glory to he who took his slave/servant (during the) night from the forbidden/inviobale place of prostration to the distant place of prostration (root SJD)

The above translation is tarjamit al-kilma and for this see below

Yes I realize that the tradition tells us that "al-tafseer lil sahaba wa al-ta'weel lil fuqaha" or "the exegesis (tafseer) is for the companions of Muhammad (eg: Ibn Abbas) and the exegesis (ta'weel) (by others than the companions of Muhammad) is for the doctors of islamic law or fuqaha" which really means that you can explain what the Qur'an really says but it does not mean that you are right or wrong as you were not there (only the sahaba or the companions were there) when the Qur'an was "revealed" to Muhammad. and I read this as more evidence that no one really understand what this opaque revelation is really saying (the locus classicus has always been the word Ilaf in Surat Quraish and no one seems to have a clue what it really means not back then and not now) and it is an open seaon for all. This does not mean that the Qur'an cannot be translated but one have to make a clear distiction between tarjamit al-kilma or linear translation and tarjamit al-ma3na (exegesis) or the translation of the meaning of the sentence (see Suyuti)

>Aug. 13, 2007 update: Quran: A Reformist Translation, translated and annotated by Edip Yuksel, Layth Saleh al-Shaiban, and Martha Schulte-Nafeh, offers a stunningly different translation of 17.1:

Glory be to the One who took His servant by night from the Restricted Temple to the most distant temple.

This is a very interesting translation of Q17:1

Quran: A Reformist Translation, translated and annotated by Edip Yuksel, Layth Saleh al-Shaiban, and Martha Schulte-Nafeh..

>What's so interesting here is that the translators understand masjid not in its technical Islamic meaning of mosque but in its generic pre-Islamic sense of temple. That conceptual breakthrough makes good sense to me.

The word temple means ma3bad or haykal or sadgh and it does not mean masjad and if you check the early Syriac sources about islam you will realize that we are told that the tayayye or mhgaraye (Syriac words for The Arabs that invaded the Middle east starting in 633CE) pray at a "masjida" or a place of prostration or they pray where ever they happen to be and I suspect that the Arabic word here would be a masjid or a place of prostration (sajada is the verbal noun for prostration) and we are not talking about a building here.

Now the words jami3 really means a mosque and the word masjad acquired the meaning of mosque (the building itself). So what did Muhammad call an Islamic house of worship? We will never know and we only know what the tradition told us in the 3rd century of Islam and I suspect that if Muhammad indeed existed and if islam was really a fully fledged religion in 632CE then he would have been wondering about what is really a jami3 (mosque) and what is really a masjad (mosque) and yes al-masjad al-aqsa is the first mosque/jami3 in the history of islam and what is amazing about it it looks like a Byzantine Chruch which indeed makes you wonder that the Arabs were still working out what is really a masjad and what is really a jami3? and they were imitating what the old civilizations of the Middle East have done from time immemorial as in the need for having an enclosed space to worship as rain or snow have never been issues in the. Hijaz

Submitting....

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Title Commenter Date Thread
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
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2Thanks for the link to Leah Bat-Chaim's Why Jerusalem is Not Holy to Muslims [56 words]Joe BlackDec 23, 2009 03:11166165
3Arabs and Muslims have no authority to claim Jerusalem [227 words]Bestley JoeDec 11, 2009 08:14165657
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3where were the jews during the past 3000 year, why they did not claim the land? [72 words]sTsNov 19, 2008 11:37143278
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1Our dear Samer and the Jews and Allah says in the the Qur'an really says that the Jews are really his favorite nation [283 words]dhimmi no moreNov 30, 2008 07:58143278
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You admit it then? [64 words]MeeTooJan 9, 2009 09:20143278
4It is written in the Quran and in the Torah [312 words]sTsJan 10, 2009 04:57143278
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2Moses, Jesus, Mohammad are ALL Muslims [95 words]AhmadAug 30, 2008 05:55137656
6Moses and Jesus were never, will never be and WOULD never be Muslims [1077 words]The Grand Infidel of KaffiristanAug 30, 2008 23:54137656
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2Moses and Jesus were Muslims? [134 words]KatteyNov 18, 2008 17:47137656
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1More drivel from our dear Ahmad [558 words]dhimmi no moreNov 30, 2008 07:18137656
2If you follow God's words then you are a Muslim [396 words]sTsDec 1, 2008 03:18137656
1The Quran is not perfect, and it is the offspring of the Torah and New Testament. [283 words]KatteyDec 1, 2008 21:22137656
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1Moses and Jesus were Muslims? [128 words]AnneDec 3, 2008 23:34137656
2Quran is Perfect, check how it was compiled [1124 words]sTsDec 4, 2008 10:11137656
2A Muslim, any person who submits to the will of God [518 words]sTsDec 5, 2008 00:48137656
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Our dear Samer; It seems that your Allah says in the Qur'an that the Bible is not really corrupted [147 words]dhimmi no moreDec 5, 2008 07:35137656
A muslim is any person who submits to God's will- response to Ts [133 words]DebbieDec 5, 2008 20:37137656
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Our dear Samer and more drivel [361 words]dhimmi no moreDec 6, 2008 11:01137656
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sTs, you have a very simplistic view [196 words]ZenDec 13, 2008 01:23137656
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Q17:1 [641 words]dhimmi no moreJul 27, 2008 13:16135742
3muslim greed, more greed and fascism [216 words]G.VishvasJul 23, 2008 05:53135582
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Hey [68 words]demonarundoMar 9, 2008 16:45116228
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24"Jerusalem's not in the Qur'an, and Muhammad was never there" [678 words]Lactantius Jr.Jun 5, 2007 15:5067422
1Lactantius Jr, I think you misunderstood my comments [217 words]InfidelJun 5, 2007 23:1867422
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1"Which Bible books, which Temple?" [646 words]Lactantius JrDec 3, 2008 07:0667422
5Zabour and Zubur [691 words]sTsDec 4, 2008 07:1067422
More on Jerusalem and other topics [658 words]sTsDec 4, 2008 11:1167422
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"What remains for you to do now" [125 words]Lactantius JrDec 5, 2008 06:2567422
The word ZBR in the Qur'an, the Psalms of David and al-Isra'eeliat in the Qur'an [443 words]dhimmi no moreDec 6, 2008 09:1767422
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The mosque was not destoyed. it remains till this day ! [238 words]Al -AqsaJan 21, 2010 15:2067422
Masjid Al-Aqsa [1462 words]Lactantius JrFeb 19, 2010 17:5367422
Mosque people were flaming racist until now. [194 words]HilmeFeb 28, 2010 09:2967422
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1You don't know what your saying [288 words]Omar SalehMay 17, 2010 23:1067422
Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Qur'an and even Tabari had no clue what is really al-masjad al-aqsa and you our dear Omar think that you know? Masha'allah [982 words]dhimmi no moreMay 19, 2010 07:4767422
1To: dhimmi no more [177 words]OmarMay 19, 2010 22:5667422
Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Qur'an and even Tabari had no clue what is really al-masjad al-aqsa part duex [27 words]dhimmi no moreMay 20, 2010 17:2767422
Our dear Omar and his excuse that the battery ran out [300 words]dhimmi no moreMay 20, 2010 18:0967422
Q17:1 revisited [64 words]dhimmi no moreMay 20, 2010 18:2067422
Our dear Omar and tahreef al-Qur'an [330 words]dhimmi no moreMay 22, 2010 08:0167422
1Jerusalem, the Abode of Peace [181 words]AngelaJun 14, 2010 09:2067422
1Jerusalem is in the quraan and the prophet muhamed was there [25 words]yomnaOct 1, 2011 17:3767422
1Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Qur'an and Muhammad was never there continued [399 words]Lactantius JrOct 5, 2011 04:4367422
false statement about jerusalem [40 words]saqibFeb 19, 2013 00:2567422
The Qur'an is silent about Jerusalem [131 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 20, 2013 07:0467422
Only Christ! [10 words]hammarJul 13, 2013 15:0067422
answer [56 words]bla bla black sheepApr 21, 2017 19:4867422

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