Sufi Muslim: More about cruel, abusive or plain ridiculous verses

Submitted by Plato (India), Dec 3, 2009 at 05:18

Sufi Muslim, you wrote,

>>@Plato Your conclusions are deeply flawed. You quoted the Quran out of context and apply your deduction to the entire Quran.<<

For a Muslim any verse that sounds cruel, abusive or plain ridiculous is out of context or mistranslated. I have quoted so many verses on this blog that are difficult to accept as the words of a Merciful, all-knowing god and this silly charge of their being out of context or a poor translation are thrown back at me. They seem to forget that if such be the case then the great sounding verses Muslims quote also have to be taken in context or their translations suspected to be dubious.

This insistence on context and the Koran being properly understandable only in Arabic makes it gobbledygook for non-Muslims despite it claiming to be a clear book ( (5:15) easy to understand (44:58 , 54:22 , 54:32, 54:40), explained in detail (6:114), and conveyed clearly (5:16, 10:15))

Why does the Koran contain so many verses which proclaim itself to be a clear book easy to understand? If I have to search for the context of each verse I have to be a historian of the Prophet's time or depend on a tafsir of some scholar of Islam. He cannot even convey His message clearly and He considers Himself all-powerful!

>> I think we can agree that there is no religion in the world whose followers at some point in time have justified their terrible crimes against humanity through their faith.<<

Not we cannot agree! Have you heard of Buddhists justifying their crimes by referring to the Buddha's teachings? Have you heard of Jains justifying their crimes based on Mahavira's teachings. Do Bahai's commit any crimes based on Bahai's teachings?? That seems to the sole prerogative of the monotheistic religions. With the exception of Islam the other Ahrahamic faiths have overcome this violent streak in them.

>>The very same chapter in the Quran that you quoted, Chapter 4 (An-Nisaa) has the following verse: 4:29 (Yusuf Ali Translation) - O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: but let there be amongst you traffic and trade by mutual good-will: nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful.<<

Tell your readers how verse 4:29 cancels the effect of: 004.074 : Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

>>The verse I have quoted clearly states that suicide is not acceptable.<<

I have again quoted the verse I had posted last time:

004.077 YUSUFALI: Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah: They said: "Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)?" Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world: the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!

Read the underlined sentence. It is for practical purposes ordering unwilling people to shorten their lives by dying fighting. Is this the wonderful gift of life Allah has given, only to shorten it by being ordered to fight unwillingly?

>> In fact, we are all given a wonderful gift called life. Just like we don't go around taking other people's gifts, Allah has stated that we are not to take this away from ourselves let alone others.<<

The following two verses tell you what Allah thinks of this wonderful gift of life He has given us:

006.032 YUSUFALI: What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not then understand? [SURELY THE SUICDE BOMBERS HAVE UNDERSTOOD THIS]

014.003 YUSUFALI: Those who love the life of this world more than the Hereafter, who hinder (men) from the Path of Allah and seek therein something crooked: they are astray by a long distance. [SUFI YOU ARE WRONG BY A LONG DISTANCE WITH YOUR CLAIM THAT ALLAH HAS GIVEN US A WONDERFUL GIFT CALLED LIFE]

004.077 YUSUFALI: Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah: They said: "Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)?" Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world: the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least! [ALLAH IS MORE CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR HEARAFTER, NOT THE GIFT OF LIFE HE HAS GIVEN ON EARTH]

>> You speak of the Quran as instigating hatred and violence. Yet, using your own words one can conclude that you are instigating hatred against Muslims inside those of us unaware of the teachings of the Quran.<<

LOL. Great conclusion. Pointing out that the Koran is full of hatred for non-Muslims does not mean I am instigating hatred against Muslims. I am showing non-Muslims that the book which they consider holy has plenty of unholy stuff in it. If I point out to those unaware that there is hatred of Jews in Hitler's Mein Kampf and if non-Nazis react to the message of Mein Kampf with disgust, would you consider I am instigating non-Nazis to hate Nazis?

What do you think is right, warn readers that there are such verses in the Koran or tell them to ignore them (at their peril?).

>>If you have read the Quran as you seem to indicate, then you should know that you are among the few who have taken the time to do so.<<

You are probably right about that. But you would also be right in thinking that the majority of Muslims have not read the Koran in their language and because it is such a mish mash of themes and contexts are unable to decipher what Allah exactly wants to accomplish, (which is to make the earth into dar al Islam.)

>> For just like in Christianity or Judaism, there are many followers who have not read the words of their Creator.<<

The moderate or peaceful Muslims are probably the ones who have not read the verses of abuse and hate for non-Muslims. Would a Muslim with a peaceful nature not wriggle in discomfort when such verses are brought to their notice? I have seen many who squirm in emabarrassment.

>> Please be mindful with your words as we all should.<<

If you mean by being mindful when talking about what is in the Koran then I am being much more careful that what the Koran has to say about me, an unbeliever:

025.044 YUSUFALI: Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.

006.039 YUSUFALI: Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, …..

008.022 YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb,- those who understand not.

009.028 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, …

004.048 YUSUFALI: Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.

My dear Sufi Muslim as you can see from the verses above my statements are nothing when it comes to the power of cursing, abusing, debasing and threatening compared to Allah.

As an unbeliever do not expect me to accept meekly His threats and abuses. I reserve the right to retaliate in kind, though I have don't believe I have done anything of the kind.

Regards

Plato

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