Eman: About Islamic insults, Islamic swords etc

Submitted by Plato (India), Jun 6, 2010 at 01:08

Eman you write:

>>Before I reply, let me point out that on my previous comment ,the one you responded to , I didn't abuse, directly or indirectly insult, any prophet ( peace be upon all of them) so kindly, don't insult the Prophet Mohammed( peace be upon him).<< Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 427:

Your prophet had no hesitation in cursing (insulting) people of other religions:

Bukhari Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: "When the last moment of the life of Allah's Apostle came he started putting his 'Khamisa' on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets."

Even when his last breath was upon him he was cursing Jews and Christians.

>>3- Then comes "THE SWORD, ISLAM IS SPREAD BY THE SWORD." In the Koran chp2 verse 256 "There shall be no compulsion in (the acceptance) of religion..." <<

Read Koran Cahpter 9 verse 33: 009.033 YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

Repeated in Koran 061.009 YUSUFALI: It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

Here is your Koran instructing you to kill people who reject Islam after having accepted it:

004.089 YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

>>You don't like the Koran, fine; for 800 years Muslims ruled Spain, they were kicked out because they didn't fulfil their obligations, shame on us, but if they had ever applied any type of force or pressure, say economic, on those people for 800 years, not a single Christian would have been there, if they wanted to spread Islam and increase in number like you claim.<<

There was not a single Muslim in Spain when Islam conquered it. What was the reason for the unprovoked conquest? Was it only the Arab conquerors who stayed on for 800 years leaving the locals to practice their faith?. How many Christians and Jews were there when it was reconquered for Christianity?

And what is there to choose between one monotheistic religion and the other? All monotheistic faiths are intolerant almost by definition.

>>Muslims ruled India for many years, when the partition happened; the Muslims took one-fourth and the Hindu three –quarters, why? No compulsion.<<

Muslims did rule for nearly a thousand years and here is what one of the most well-regarded historians of the twentieth century said about Islam in India:

"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within." Will Durant, the well-known American historian says in the book "The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage" page 459

The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride of the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period. "

>> Which Muslim army went to Indonesia, Nigeria, the entire east coast of Africa? What sword? What sword? I'll tell you; IT'S THE SWORD OF INTELLECT.<<

Which armies went to Egypt, Persia, India, Spain the Maghreb? It was the Arab imperialist sword and the Islamic sword. Those swords have not finished chopping off heads in various countries even now. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Thailand, India, Iran, Sudan for example….Pointing to a few incidents of peaceful conversion does not fool those who know the history of Islam.

>>4- Enough has been said about 9/11 to proof it was an inside job, but even if you want to blame SOME Muslims, then, if they are really responsible for that, those who committed this major sin know what awaits them in this life and on the Day of Judgement , for killing innocent people is not what our RELIGION teaches (because teachings of our cult ….sounds more like something out of a Dan Brown novel!) ;<<

You want proof that Muslims perpetrated 9/11. Your prophet with the flimsiest of proofs accused the Banu Quraiza of treachery and had their menfolk beheaded and their women and children sold into slavery. He exiled the Jewish tribe of Banu Nadir and looted their property on the excuse they planned to assassinate him. For proof he said the Angel Gabriel informed him of the plot. LOL.

>>Chapter 2 of the Koran ,verse 177

"It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allah, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masakin (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salat (prayer ), and gives the Zakat (charity), and who fulfill their covenant when they make it, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of fighting (during the battles). Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqun (the pious)"<<

This is what Allah tells Muslims:

058.021 YUSUFALI: Allah has decreed: "It is I and My messengers who must prevail": For Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will.

Allah uses his strength to assure Muslims that He will give them booty (i.e. wealth looted from caravans and weaker tribes) and tells you to ENJOY such looted wealth:

033.027 YUSUFALI: And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

008.069 YUSUFALI: But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good: but fear Allah: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

This looted wealth is what Muslims are told to use to give zakat, free slaves etc.:

008.041 YUSUFALI: And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.

>>5- Obviously you would like to say that am using the Koran to proof myself (even though it's my right, nonetheless,…<<

I have used the Koran to prove that Muslims are allowed to loot non-Muslims and use that wealth to give charity to indigent Muslims. Do you have anything to say about this?

>>… you may need a scholar to explain the verses because they have a lot more meaning than what you read, so quoting them may be unfair to you if you don't completely understand them…so I will not quote any more verses );<<

Allah Himself says that His message is easy to understand. Why then should a scholar be required to understand it?

054.040 YUSUFALI: And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

the Qur'an is a "clear book" (5:15) "easy to understand" (44:58 , 54:22 , 54:32, 54:40) "explained in detail" (6:114), "conveyed clearly", (5:16, 10:15) and with "no doubt" in it (2:1)

>> George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936 said "I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him – the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity."<<

Geroge Bernard Shaw was not a historian, he was a playwright. Professional historians have something entirely different to say about Islam (read my above quote from Will Durant). Let me quote an even more famous Briton (the one who wrote 'Why I am not a Christian):

PROF BERTRAND RUSSELL (PHILISOPHER)

"Over a billion people believe in Allah without truly knowing what Allah supposedly stands for or what he really demands of them. And the minority that do understand continue to be Moslems because they have redefined their morality and ethics to fit within the teachings of Islam, which are floridly lacking in morality. They therefore redefine what is good and evil in order to fit their lives into what is preached by Islam, instead of examining Islam to see if it fits within the good life. Backwards thinking, imposed by a backward religion".

Another great Englishman who studied your prophet has this to say about him:

"…. but in his private conduct Mahomet indulged the appetites of a man and abused the claims of a prophet. A special revelation dispensed him from the laws which he had imposed on his nation; the female sex, without reserve, was abandoned to his desires; and this singular prerogative excited the envy, rather than the scandal, the veneration, rather than the envy, of the devout Musulmans."

CHAPTER L - Edward Gibbon, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, vol. 9 [1776]

>>6- And yes THE QURAN IS PERFECT;ISLAM IS PERFECT, WE, HUMANS, ARE NOT..<<

This perfect religion teaches you contempt for non-Muslims, for it calls them najees, blind deaf and dumb and the worst of beasts:

009.028 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

009:095, "They will swear to you by Allah when you return to them so that you may turn aside from them; so do turn aside from them; surely they are unclean and their abode is hell; a recompense for what they earned."

008.055 YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.

Ask yourself Eman why a perfect Allah would create imperfect, unclean and beastly non-Muslims?

>>…The difference between animals and humans is THE BRAIN; the CHOICES WE MAKE THROUGH THE ABILITY OF REASONING. We have the religion , we know what is right and wrong , we choose…if the Muslims are not properly practising the religion, it's not the religion's fault it's theirs (like the laws of any country)…<<

The perfect Allah gave humans the ability to reason yet you find that non-Muslims do not have the reasoning capacity to accept Allah as the creator. Why is that Eman?

>>…we were born alone and we will die alone carrying our deeds, good and bad, with complete responsibility for them…It's perfect in every way you think of it…<<

You are so wrong about our having complete responsibility for our deeds. You do not know your Koran.

In An-Nahl (16:93) "If Allah so will, He could make you all one nation: but He leaves straying whom he pleases, and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions."

010.099 YUSUFALI: If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!

006.125 YUSUFALI: Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth Allah (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe. [Allah has not opened the breasts of kaffirs like me to Islam. So whose fault is it?]

017.013 YUSUFALI: Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck: On the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open. [WHY PUT PEOPLE ON EARTH ALLAH COULD AS WELL HAVE CREATED OUR SOULS AND SENT TO HEAVEN OR HELL ON HIS FACNCY AT THE MOMENT]

32:13YUSUFALI: If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me will come true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."

Verse 32:13 tells you why Allah misguides people. He wants to fill His hell with jinns and men! Allah's invention of hell would otherwise have been a total waste.

>>, right now, you see it economically, the world is turning to Islamic finance (the U.S Fed is setting nearly 0% interest) for solutions to the economic crisis started by the greed of those who live by sucking the life off those working families who end up paying the double or triple the value of the original mortgage…(is that fair?)<<

Just as Muslims realized that the Koran has revealed the secrets of the universe, including the speed of light, modern embryology, meteorology etc AFTER the Jews and Christians discovered it so the Western economists are discovering the virtues of Koranic economics. LOL

>>And let us not get started on the suicide and crime rates in the West!<<

I suggest you get started on them. Let us have some fun.

>>This religion speaks to the physical being and to the soul; it's a religion of moderation.<<

Kur'an 8:5 "Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to fight for the true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to fighting)."

Koran 9:23 O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers"

The above verses are great pieces of moderation from Allah. Only Muslims can call such immoderation, moderation.

>> If you ( you plural) truly study it you (you plural) will find that it answers the questions that everyone asks themselves, why am I here? What is the purpose of my creation?<<

Allah has answered these questions very nicely in the Koran:

Here is one purpose in life:

002.216 YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. [PURPOSE: FIGHT EVEN IF YOU DISLIKE IT]

006.032 YUSUFALI: What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not then understand? [DON'T PLAY. JUST FIGHT UNBELIEVERS]

014.003 YUSUFALI: Those who love the life of this world more than the Hereafter, who hinder (men) from the Path of Allah and seek therein something crooked: they are astray by a long distance. [YOU ARE HERE TO LOVE THE HEREAFTER MORE THAN YOUR LIFE ie. FIGHT THE KAFFIRS AND GET KILLED OR GET BOOTY]

>> In which religion are you instructed to not harm the old, women, children and a TREE when you are fighting a battle?! Yes a tree; it's all in a Hadith (a saying) of Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him); unlike everything the world has witnessed at Abu Ghraib and the inhumane torture and sexual abuse conducted there…<<

In which religion does an old woman's legs get tied to two camels and has her body torn apart? You guessed right, in Islam. Ibn Ishaq page 665 (A Guillaume , Oxford University press, Pakistan): Zayed b Haritha "ordered Qays b al Musahar to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly by putting a rope to her two legs and two camels and driving them until they rent her in two.

And you know what Eman, the mercy to humankind, your prophet did not have a single word of reprimand for this companion of his who later compiled the Koran.

>>Remember the phrase: an Islamophobe is a person who has phobia of Islam and what is a person who has phobia of Islam and what is Phobia: it is an anxiety disorder characterized by extreme and IRRATIONAL fear of simple things or social situations… conquer your (your plural)fear, talk to a Muslim scholar (called Sheikh)

By your definition of phobia a reading of the Koran will reveal that Allah has been struck by an acute phobia about Jews, Christians and Pagans so much so that the phobia has turned into such hatred that He keeps threatening to burn them forever in hell.

>>..and relax nobody will hold a sword against you to convert to Islam...that's not who we are...<<

Nearly a 100 Ahmedis killed while praying for being Ahmadis. That surely is a sword against them to convert. How many of your Muslim scholars/sheikha had anything say about these killing. Go re-read verse 9:33. Imposition of Islam is the duty of every Allah-loving Muslim.

Also the Koran does hold a sword against those who are unwilling members of your religion in verse 4:89 quoted above.

Regards

Plato

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