... or perhaps in yours ?

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Oct 30, 2011 at 19:01

BB King wrote :

> the problem is that no matter what I do and no matter what evidence I supply you will always disregard it claiming "Too good to be true," as you did before. You are set in a mindset, which I cannot sway even if I provide infinite amout of evidence.<

Come on, what evidence do you cite in the first place ? Your last triumphal source was e.g. a short general notice of the US Embassy in Beirut :

" All marriages in Lebanon are performed by a religious authority and are registered in the husband's jurisdiction of birth. Those wishing to have a civil marriage must marry outside the country. In cases of interfaith relationships, either partner can convert to the faith of the other for the purpose of marriage."

This is an official generality that as such begs for more questions than it gives answers. Hence I commented on it

" I wish they adduced the stats on real marriages concluded by Muslimas against the shariah. I suspect though that it it may be 0 or close to 0%, bearing in mind that women in Islam have no freedom, and so of course no choice in the matters of marriage is given to them. All is prearranged by their male relatives."

The only way to sway my mind is not by complaining about my disbelief in sweeping official generalizations but to give me hard statistics on real marriages concluded in Lebanon by Moslem women with kafirs who didn't have to convert to Islam beforehand. If you don't have the source on that you will never persuade me of anything and no amount of assurances about the "evidence" you bring will change anything in it. Until your refute me with numbers I assert that such marriages statistically don't happen because of Islam and the threat of honour killing every Moslem woman is exposed to in case she forgets Islam and disregards the will of her male relatives.

> But sharia seems to be your problem in Lebanon and if this is true, your logic should stay consistent and it should also pose a problem with you in Israel. Are you aware there are 8 Sharia courts in Israel? Here is the link: http://972mag.com/why-israel-imposes-sharia-law/5824/<

You have no problems with sharia in Lebanon, do you ? It's so gorgeous and it's only my fault that I can't see its beauty , isn't it ?

Anyway, you rely on a very dubious "source" that claims "a better question for neocons: how can you be so hysterical about the (non-existent) threat of Sharia in the US". Non-existent ??? Now as you decided to post on this forum I'd suggest you look at some of Dr. Pipes seminal work on creeping sharia in the US with a plethora of links and sources. Just google "shariah in the US Dr. Daniel Pipes" and you will see how existent this allegedly "non-existent" threat is!

Do you know, first, that Israel didn't establish any of the sharia courts , but inherited them from the British and the Turks? But it altered and limited them a lot and they are under state control. Do you know furthermore what kind of matters they are allowed to deal with? Only personal status - marriage and divorce and even that excluding such Islamic things as polygamy. And above all any decision of these courts is subject to review by the Supreme Court of Israel which can easily overturn sharia rulings based on conflicts with basic rights or other laws. So it is not Allah's law that rules in Israel. That's why you can't see scenes of stoning, beheading and cutting off hands in Israel which you do see as a matter of course in such sharia-ruled states as Saudi Arabia, Somalia or Yemen and you will never see a fatwa like that of the Lebanese Moslem "experts" published against a law to protect women against doemstic violence. Let me quote it again and ask you to comment it :

"This will have a negative impact on Muslim children… who will see their mother threatening their father with prison, in defiance of patriarchal authority, which will in turn undermine the moral authority" of fathers!

For me it does mean in other words that you can't grow up as a good Moslem unless you see your daddy mistreating, humiliating and beating your mum. Even if perfectly true, it's a monstrosity, isn't it ?

"If Sharia is your problem, then it will remain your problem regardless of the country. So please for the sake of consistency show us your outrage over Sharia law in Israel, as you have shown us your outrage for Sharia law in Lebanon."

I will show my outrage at the shariah courts in Israel if you bring up a fatwa of such an Israeli sharia court that calls for repealing the Israeli civil laws protecting women against violent husbands because in this case their children may see their mums threaten their dad with jail and thus making it impossible for their children to grow up as good Moslems ! I will show my outrage if your quote a decision of a shariah court in Israel to stone a lewd wife and kill an apostate . When you have people with such mentality as those bastards that issued the fatwa in Lebanon or those who mete out these punishments , then the only thing you cannot have living by their laws is democracy and freedom ! If Israel tolerates such bastards and their barbarian mentality on its own territory then I will agree it has ceased to be a democracy.

> One more important fact to note is that in these Sharia courts a woman's testimony is half that of a man and this is in according to you the only democracy in the ME i.e., Israel! http://davidaslindsay.blogspot.com/2008/02/sharia-state-of-israel.html<

First, as far as I know Jews and Jewesses know no such rules in their own courts, so only Arabs are affected and in conflicts between the two the civil law has absolute precedence. Second, these courts deal with minor matters of no wider importance and any of their decisions can be easily reviewed and cancelled by the Supreme Court of Israel in case a Moslem woman appeals to it as contradicting the valid Israeli laws.

So why blame Israel for inheriting this legal remnants which it has made sterile so to speak instead of asking why Moslem women in Israel don't take their case to the Supreme Court of Israel ? After all the way is open to them as Israeli citizens and their case is clear and simple enough, isn't it ? Who forces them to live by the sharia? The Jewish state ?

Last and not least, what court in Lebanon can or will dare overrule the decisions made by the shariah judges behind whom stand powerful Moslem militias and what power in general can you appeal to for protection in case you are fed up with the sharia as such there ?

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".