69 million page views

... or perhaps in yours ?

Reader comment on item: Qaddafi's Ignominious End
in response to reader comment: Set in your mindset

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Oct 30, 2011 at 19:01

BB King wrote :

> the problem is that no matter what I do and no matter what evidence I supply you will always disregard it claiming "Too good to be true," as you did before. You are set in a mindset, which I cannot sway even if I provide infinite amout of evidence.<

Come on, what evidence do you cite in the first place ? Your last triumphal source was e.g. a short general notice of the US Embassy in Beirut :

" All marriages in Lebanon are performed by a religious authority and are registered in the husband's jurisdiction of birth. Those wishing to have a civil marriage must marry outside the country. In cases of interfaith relationships, either partner can convert to the faith of the other for the purpose of marriage."

This is an official generality that as such begs for more questions than it gives answers. Hence I commented on it

" I wish they adduced the stats on real marriages concluded by Muslimas against the shariah. I suspect though that it it may be 0 or close to 0%, bearing in mind that women in Islam have no freedom, and so of course no choice in the matters of marriage is given to them. All is prearranged by their male relatives."

The only way to sway my mind is not by complaining about my disbelief in sweeping official generalizations but to give me hard statistics on real marriages concluded in Lebanon by Moslem women with kafirs who didn't have to convert to Islam beforehand. If you don't have the source on that you will never persuade me of anything and no amount of assurances about the "evidence" you bring will change anything in it. Until your refute me with numbers I assert that such marriages statistically don't happen because of Islam and the threat of honour killing every Moslem woman is exposed to in case she forgets Islam and disregards the will of her male relatives.

> But sharia seems to be your problem in Lebanon and if this is true, your logic should stay consistent and it should also pose a problem with you in Israel. Are you aware there are 8 Sharia courts in Israel? Here is the link: http://972mag.com/why-israel-imposes-sharia-law/5824/<

You have no problems with sharia in Lebanon, do you ? It's so gorgeous and it's only my fault that I can't see its beauty , isn't it ?

Anyway, you rely on a very dubious "source" that claims "a better question for neocons: how can you be so hysterical about the (non-existent) threat of Sharia in the US". Non-existent ??? Now as you decided to post on this forum I'd suggest you look at some of Dr. Pipes seminal work on creeping sharia in the US with a plethora of links and sources. Just google "shariah in the US Dr. Daniel Pipes" and you will see how existent this allegedly "non-existent" threat is!

Do you know, first, that Israel didn't establish any of the sharia courts , but inherited them from the British and the Turks? But it altered and limited them a lot and they are under state control. Do you know furthermore what kind of matters they are allowed to deal with? Only personal status - marriage and divorce and even that excluding such Islamic things as polygamy. And above all any decision of these courts is subject to review by the Supreme Court of Israel which can easily overturn sharia rulings based on conflicts with basic rights or other laws. So it is not Allah's law that rules in Israel. That's why you can't see scenes of stoning, beheading and cutting off hands in Israel which you do see as a matter of course in such sharia-ruled states as Saudi Arabia, Somalia or Yemen and you will never see a fatwa like that of the Lebanese Moslem "experts" published against a law to protect women against doemstic violence. Let me quote it again and ask you to comment it :

"This will have a negative impact on Muslim children… who will see their mother threatening their father with prison, in defiance of patriarchal authority, which will in turn undermine the moral authority" of fathers!

For me it does mean in other words that you can't grow up as a good Moslem unless you see your daddy mistreating, humiliating and beating your mum. Even if perfectly true, it's a monstrosity, isn't it ?

"If Sharia is your problem, then it will remain your problem regardless of the country. So please for the sake of consistency show us your outrage over Sharia law in Israel, as you have shown us your outrage for Sharia law in Lebanon."

I will show my outrage at the shariah courts in Israel if you bring up a fatwa of such an Israeli sharia court that calls for repealing the Israeli civil laws protecting women against violent husbands because in this case their children may see their mums threaten their dad with jail and thus making it impossible for their children to grow up as good Moslems ! I will show my outrage if your quote a decision of a shariah court in Israel to stone a lewd wife and kill an apostate . When you have people with such mentality as those bastards that issued the fatwa in Lebanon or those who mete out these punishments , then the only thing you cannot have living by their laws is democracy and freedom ! If Israel tolerates such bastards and their barbarian mentality on its own territory then I will agree it has ceased to be a democracy.

> One more important fact to note is that in these Sharia courts a woman's testimony is half that of a man and this is in according to you the only democracy in the ME i.e., Israel! http://davidaslindsay.blogspot.com/2008/02/sharia-state-of-israel.html<

First, as far as I know Jews and Jewesses know no such rules in their own courts, so only Arabs are affected and in conflicts between the two the civil law has absolute precedence. Second, these courts deal with minor matters of no wider importance and any of their decisions can be easily reviewed and cancelled by the Supreme Court of Israel in case a Moslem woman appeals to it as contradicting the valid Israeli laws.

So why blame Israel for inheriting this legal remnants which it has made sterile so to speak instead of asking why Moslem women in Israel don't take their case to the Supreme Court of Israel ? After all the way is open to them as Israeli citizens and their case is clear and simple enough, isn't it ? Who forces them to live by the sharia? The Jewish state ?

Last and not least, what court in Lebanon can or will dare overrule the decisions made by the shariah judges behind whom stand powerful Moslem militias and what power in general can you appeal to for protection in case you are fed up with the sharia as such there ?

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

<< Previous Comment      Next Comment >>

Reader comments (66) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2Tragic event [30 words]LoraOct 27, 2011 08:43190446
3democracy in the arab world [57 words]swapnilOct 26, 2011 10:31190412
3the people's tyrant [176 words]RNOct 24, 2011 04:25190329
12Where are Libya's 144 tons of gold ? [186 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 16:40190316
Similarities between Qadhafi and Jugurtha [57 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:17190316
1To find something similar to Gaddafi in the western world, Debanjan has to go back 2000 years [99 words]JoshOct 25, 2011 02:09190316
8The Test of the Century [109 words]Michael Hanni MorcosOct 23, 2011 14:42190313
3Qaddafi's Ignominious End [187 words]Balarabe AbbaOct 22, 2011 09:11190276
Qaddafi's Ignominious End [63 words]Balarabe AbbaOct 21, 2011 14:01190250
3Qaddafi's Ignominious end [135 words]Nenette GrunbergOct 21, 2011 10:50190245
3Nothing to rejoice [115 words]car313Oct 21, 2011 05:01190238
8What about directing worldwide jihad against China ? [192 words]IanusOct 21, 2011 18:21190238
2China's "Muslim Problem" doesn't need US manipulation [542 words]Kepha HorOct 21, 2011 23:17190238
While I'm at it... [52 words]Kepha HorOct 21, 2011 23:19190238
1Democracy and Islam [110 words]JoshOct 22, 2011 00:39190238
1You have a point there [122 words]car313Oct 22, 2011 05:31190238
4Why another enemy? The old one is still there. [596 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 15:01190238
4Spectators,not actors [326 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 16:18190238
3How to profit from meddling with China's "Islamic problem" ? [716 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 18:46190238
1The next bogey is... [12 words]KeithOct 23, 2011 23:55190238
Communism was not a bogey [443 words]PrashantOct 24, 2011 00:05190238
Nice Litany, but... [71 words]Kepha HorOct 25, 2011 17:55190238
4Whose litany do you mean? [531 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 07:00190238
Re my Comments [439 words]Kepha HorOct 26, 2011 21:06190238
Re my Comments [136 words]Kepha HorOct 26, 2011 21:11190238
11Chechens were Christians. [644 words]IanusOct 29, 2011 12:38190238
3Ever heard a Moslem blame Islam for anything ? [889 words]IanusOct 29, 2011 19:26190238
3Islam -the biggest killer of Christianity [1120 words]IanusOct 30, 2011 08:27190238
1Have I ever heard a Muslim blame Islam for anything? [199 words]Kepha HorNov 3, 2011 21:43190238
1A quibble [83 words]Kepha HorNov 3, 2011 21:48190238
2What America will you fight for ? [855 words]IanusNov 6, 2011 19:32190238
1What Will You Fight For, Indeed, America? [580 words]M. ToveyNov 7, 2011 18:04190238
Ok, Ok, [485 words]Kepha HorNov 7, 2011 21:48190238
Maybe... [36 words]Garry LockwoodNov 17, 2011 18:30190238
3Maybe... [452 words]IanusNov 20, 2011 15:20190238
Don't Forget [134 words]BB KingNov 23, 2011 22:47190238
5"Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi" [1639 words]IanusNov 30, 2011 14:13190238
3Qaddafi [66 words]Nelson D'SilvaOct 21, 2011 04:08190236
Seconding Nelson D' Silva's voice [197 words]JoshOct 22, 2011 15:37190236
4Canadian -Nato Factor [130 words]Michael Hanni MorcosOct 20, 2011 23:03190223
2QADAFFI'S END [45 words]samOct 20, 2011 22:27190222
1No Pluralism in Libya [86 words]jdOct 20, 2011 22:09190220
2Or ... [39 words]IanusOct 21, 2011 19:39190220
6I hope I'm wrong, but... [79 words]Peter HerzOct 20, 2011 20:25190212
3Peter Herz's hope is true [120 words]PrashantOct 20, 2011 22:18190212
7We all need to be pessimistic about Libya [63 words]JoshOct 21, 2011 00:43190212
6Theory of games and Qaddafi [774 words]IanusOct 21, 2011 17:54190212
2Are you aware that Lebanon is a democracy in the MiddleEast, not just Israel? [71 words]BB KingOct 21, 2011 22:46190212
4Mixing up form and content [285 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 14:09190212
2Disagree [83 words]BB KingOct 23, 2011 20:20190212
4What content does 'confessionalism form of government' convey in real life ? Theocratic pluralism ? [622 words]IanusOct 25, 2011 02:50190212
2Wrong Precedent to Establish Democracy [124 words]BB KingOct 25, 2011 20:47190212
4Not so wrong as you think [661 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 19:03190212
4Answer [66 words]BB KingOct 26, 2011 23:25190212
4Unsatisfactory answer [411 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 07:48190212
2Set in your mindset [175 words]BB KingOct 28, 2011 22:13190212
3... or perhaps in yours ? [1177 words]IanusOct 30, 2011 19:01190212
5A few observations [288 words]BB KingNov 1, 2011 00:46190212
2Paper democracy and the justice system of the United Arab Emirates "seven places avove the USA" [992 words]IanusNov 3, 2011 18:33190212
1Thanks, Prashant [33 words]Peter HerzNov 3, 2011 21:50190212
1Thanks for the moral support... [35 words]Peter HerzNov 3, 2011 21:54190212
2Freedom of Religion in Lebanon [240 words]BB KingNov 6, 2011 17:43190212
2Experience and governmental lies [543 words]IanusNov 6, 2011 20:15190212
2You're welcome [167 words]IanusNov 6, 2011 20:44190212
Last Dictator ? [44 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
nashoushOct 20, 2011 16:45190202
2Not to mention the pro-US dictators [38 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:19190202

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)