Points Not Made

Submitted by Larry (United States), Jul 13, 2014 at 12:00

I did not think that Dr Pipes put forth the best arguments at his disposal when responding to this ally of Jew-murdering thugs. ... Moreover, his opponent here attempted to broaden the discussion, using deceptive tactics to do so.

Here, as a modest suggestion, are some other debate points he could have used, although time constraints would have been a limiting factor (and I'm not claiming that Dr Pipes would even agree with my claims- if he disagrees with the facts I present, I'd be interested).

1. Israel is dealing with an enemy that seeks to murder Jews. Not merely Israelis, but Jews. For example, the Hamas Charter quotes the hadith calling on Moslems to "kill the Jew behind the tree", and various Moslem spokesmen have decreed that no Jew would be permitted to live in Palestine when his tibe takes over. Christians, I suspect, would be next on their list (unless, perhaps, they pay the jizya with willing submission). Arab and Moslem citizens of Israel, on the other hand, enjoy equal rights (ok, no law of return or required military service).
2. If Moslems laid down their arms, there would be peace in Palestine. If Israel disarmed, Moslems would carry on Hitler's mission against Jews. Hamas may at some point, want a cease fire: it does not want peace in the area: in the words of Egyptian President Nassar, "We will drive Israel into the sea amidst a sea of blood".
3. The "occupation" is a myth. A brief review of the history of why Arabs would have been in order. Had Arabs been willing to accept a highly truncated Jewish state in 1948, instead of trying to kill it and slaughter its inhabitants, possibly a "Palestinian" state would have arisen from the partition. Arabs, however, urged to do so by Arab governments, left the area, expecting to return when the Jews were vanquished. Well it didn't happen that way. My sympathies to them are limited.
4. Arabs who lived in Palestine at the end of the Ottoman Empire (after WW I) did not own the land. They were tenant farmers, laborers, and tradespeople. The land was owned by absentee landlords who lived outside Palestine. Such claims to land ownership were tenuous, but they were historical. When the Ottomans were defeated, the British took over the land as part of the Mandate. So when did this land become that of the mythical "Palestinians"?
5. Arabs have no long term association with the area of Palestine. Only recently have I become aware that in 1695, an Ottoman census of Palestine revealed essentially no Arab presence. Lots of Greek and Jewish names, but no Arab names.
6. The "Palestinian" people are a myth born of 20th century political and, perhaps, social upheaval. When Jordan took control of the West Bank, there were no complaints of an "occupation", and there was virtually no identity of a Palestinian people. In fact, as recently as the 1960's Arab leaders in Palestine admitted as such- when they prevailed over the Jews, they would be incorporated into Jordan. There is no record of a claim of a "Palestinian" people until the 20th century, and almost none until well after the creation of the modern state of Israel- certainly no complaint when Jordan took over the area.
7. Hafsa Mustapha mis-represented the situation in calling the death of Gazan civilians "murder". No, she lied. Israel goes to great lengths to minimize casualties on the part of non-combatants, and exposes its own soldiers to risk in that effort. Hamas- and various other Moslem groups- seek to maximize civilian deaths. It was Pipes' opponent who sides with mass murderers, as she despicably attemped to tar Israelis with her own cause's tactics. Gazan non-combatants are the unfortunate unintended victims of war. Well, unintended on the part of Israel- Hamas quite deliberately encourages human shields to protect their brave murderers.
8. The hypocrisy of Arab spokesmen like Mustapha is quite revolting. Pipes mentioned the 150,000+ killed in Syria, which has netted only the most restrained condemnation by the Moslem world. Casualties of war are only important when the Israelis are involved. Indeed, killing infidels is a very much embedded into the ideology of Islam.
9. Hamas shows its intent on a daily basis by propagandizing its people into hatred, one that fits in very nicrly with their "religion". There can be no enduring peace until Arabs develop a culture that is not hate-based. Israel does not seek the murder of Arab non-combatants.

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