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True--but Understandable

Reader comment on item: Poll: Israelis Want Victory, Preferably without Paying the Price

Submitted by Stephen Berman (United States), Jun 19, 2021 at 22:40

I think we have to remember that the Israelis are the ones who will pay the price for a more intensive armed conflict. It is rather easy one to say that they should escalate the conflict until they win. But this will cost lives. People think twice before sending themselves, their husbands, wives, and children into potentially deadly combat. If 80% of Israelis want total victory, it should hardly be surprising that the percentage goes down when one factors in the sacrifices they must make. Would we expect that the likelihood that many of them will die or lose family and friends to these battles make the percentage go up?

I think it is the size of the decline in support that may be surprising (though I have no standard of comparison) and, perhaps, that means something important. One thought I had is that military conflict is not the only way to defeat an opponent. There are at least a few other ways.

Perhaps the Abraham Accords caused many Israelis to believe that economic and cultural shifts within the Arab world, added to Israel's present level of military pressure, may be enough to demoralize Israel;s opponents to the extent that they are willing to give up. Though I think this would be more likely to happen if Trump were still present, the Abraham Accords rest more upon economic realities than they do on Trump. Regardless of how completely people accept the standard ideas about climate change, the long term trend for hydrocarbon fuels is downward. It has been going down for years and the decline will continue as solar, wind, and nuclear gain ascendancy. And this probably will occur at about the same rate whether the US President is a Democrat or a Republican. Though Israel now has oil and gas (and tons and tons of shale), the Israeli technological way (plus tourism) is the economic future for the Arabs and the Arab economic elites know that...they have known that for years. I suspect that even the Iranian economic elites know that, but they have much less relative power in Iran. As more Arab countries increase co-operation with Israel, even if they do not join the formal Abraham Accords group, I think that Arab culture will be driven more and more toward accepting Israel and working with Israel.

The Palestinians will become the only Arabs wanting to destroy Israel and they will become increasingly isolated and demoralized until they finally give up and accept a reasonable solution, which could be a 2 state solution with no Palestinian right of return or, perhaps, "no additional state solution" with Gaza becoming a part of Egypt and most of the West Bank becoming a part of Jordan, with the inhabitants of those regions becoming citizens in either Egypt or Jordan with no claim on Israel or Israeli citizenship. So the hope may be to stay the present course and hope there is a rising tide of Arab rapprochement with Israel that will make the Palestinians realize their cause is hopeless. I do not know whether this can work but if it can I would prefer it to having my friends and family killed in more intense war.

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Daniel Pipes replies:

"Israelis are the ones who will pay the price for a more intensive armed conflict": and Palestinians too, even more, in the short term.

"military conflict is not the only way to defeat an opponent": I do not say it is. Economics, diplomacy, religion, and other means have a role to play.

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Reader comments (29) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Beware of "Unintended Consequences": PA vs. Hamas, et al [250 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertJul 9, 2021 09:20269808
Collateral Damage Always Contentious - Yet Never-ending in Consequences of Such Clashes [291 words]M ToveyJul 10, 2021 13:06269808
1Palestinian Cohort and Demographics [459 words]RobertJul 2, 2021 11:32269415
Views of Victory Valued in Cost of Victims [476 words]M ToveyJul 2, 2021 18:37269415
1So, Victory Means Re-Installing the Palestinian Authority (Abbas) in Gaza? [138 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertJun 29, 2021 09:33269263
2Israeli Victory - Against the World, or the Palestians? [85 words]RobertJun 26, 2021 14:25269030
1The truth should be Israel's Hasbara. [233 words]PrashantJun 27, 2021 19:38269030
That marriage of convenience [83 words]JeffJun 28, 2021 21:19269030
1Communist China and the Arab Spring [318 words]RobertJun 28, 2021 21:25269030
Arab Uprising Under Persian/Marxist Influences [299 words]M ToveyJul 1, 2021 18:42269030
4Civil War in Palestine (1948-2021) [516 words]RobertJun 23, 2021 06:51268714
4Russia vs. Turkey [401 words]RobertJun 22, 2021 11:27268647
1Intrigues of Empires Returning to Become Obstacles to Israeli Victory [126 words]M ToveyJun 22, 2021 15:52268647
True--but Understandable [534 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Stephen BermanJun 19, 2021 22:40268478
1People are ready to ray the price - if it is worth it [498 words]JT MeyerJun 15, 2021 11:38268259
2Hamas in Gaza Entails Viuctory for Israel [417 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RobertJun 11, 2021 14:08268163
3"Paying the Price" = Zero Israeli Casualties [267 words]RobertJun 12, 2021 10:55268163
Change Government Does Not Have Victory in View [62 words]M ToveyJun 12, 2021 12:09268163
1Islamic way of thinking is wrong [107 words]PrashantJun 12, 2021 18:09268163
1Is Israel Victory humanly achievable? [55 words]PeterJun 9, 2021 14:34268074
Who wkll be doinv theactual fighting [64 words]Steven ShermanJun 11, 2021 10:58268074
Defense of the Political Will in Jeopardy When Resolve Does Not Match the Threat [95 words]M ToveyJun 14, 2021 00:35268074
Diffusion of Political Wills and Opinions Affecting Defense of Sovereignty [212 words]M ToveyJun 22, 2021 10:05268074
3Israel needs the kind of leadership that inspires victory [234 words]DaveJun 8, 2021 21:56268036
2It is NOT an Israel vs. Palestinian problem [192 words]PrashantJun 10, 2021 23:25268036
2A Matter Of Will [119 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Gary SackJun 8, 2021 16:14268024
1Clash of Wills - Clash of Empires - Kingdom Victory [125 words]M ToveyJun 9, 2021 10:40268024
3Total Victory, Simple Victory [64 words]Gary SackJun 9, 2021 14:39268024
1What Price Victory - What Price Peace [605 words]M ToveyJun 8, 2021 12:13268011

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