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Hopelessly without Meaning

Reader comment on item: Nation-building in Afghanistan, Iraq Was Never Going to Work
in response to reader comment: Renox: It is Surat Ali-Imran: 110 not 119 and the Doctrine of الامر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر

Submitted by Renox (United States), Sep 22, 2021 at 16:12

Thank you "dhimmi no more" for your comments on my posting "The Family of Imraan".

1- You are correct. The Verse in question is 110 and not 119 of Koran Surah (chapter) 3.

2- You asked: " Did you mean: Surat Ali-Imran: 110?"

No, I meant "Surat Al Imraan: " just as I wrote. The way you have written (Ali-Imran) will totally confuse English readers who will think "Ali" is a name, (like Mohammad Ali, the US boxer) which it isn't.....it's a term which means "(Family of......). In Arabic it is: ألف مدة) آل) (Aal) and not ال (al) and definitely not علي(Ali). In addition, most sources I have seen in English use "The Family of Imran" as the title, so I'm sticking with that usage other than the "aa" I use in the final word.

3- I think it's unproductive to use too much Arabic in any forum in which most of the audience does not know the language. Certainly actually "explaining" Arabic language points, as I have done above, is mostly fruitless, but in this case, I feel I had to. However, I've used as simple an explanation as possible.

4- I also thank you for your list of references and additional explanations on our theme here. However, I have long felt that the available English translations of the Koran are completely inadequate as are translations of the "tafsir"(explanation, interpretations etc of the Koran and other religious items). They use English words but the results are not really English......they read like some kind of code or "secret"' language.....ultimately incomprehensible, English words or not.

As an example, may I quote one of your examples in your posting....You wrote:
============================
"This can be rendered as: From Ibn 'Abbas (the cousin of Muhammad and Hibr al-Umma):
"You were the best nation brought out to the people." He (Ibn 'Abbas) says: You order them to perform what is right, truly that they witness that there is no god except Allah, and accepting what was sent down from Allah, and you FIGHT them about it. And "There is no God except Allah" it is the best (of what is) right. And you end what is immoral/corrupt and the immoral-corrupt is the lying/denial"
============================
Sorry....but this is not English. (Abadan, ya sayyidee) It's using English words, I grant, but the result is hopelessly without meaning - practically incoherent.

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Reader comments (27) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2(humor on) On rebuilding the vanquished nations [148 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PrashantJan 22, 2022 15:38278447
1Thanks for providing the original 'citation' for the joke. [34 words]PrashantJan 24, 2022 02:20278447
3Germany, Japan, Austria, and Italy vs Iraq and Afganistan [1637 words]LudvikusJan 21, 2022 19:02278433
True and well said [26 words]ShmuelJan 6, 2022 10:12278025
The invasion of Iraq was about something primal [164 words]ShishirNov 13, 2021 01:41276513
Other matters [103 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
KephaNov 11, 2021 16:24276483
Changing world [110 words]Arish SahaniOct 18, 2021 18:46275865
4The Family of Imraan [653 words]RenoxSep 21, 2021 03:25274920
3Renox: It is Surat Ali-Imran: 110 not 119 and the Doctrine of الامر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر [411 words]dhimmi no moreSep 21, 2021 14:58274920
2Once Again - Clarification Necessary to Perceive How Wrong Things Are [128 words]M ToveySep 22, 2021 13:49274920
1Hopelessly without Meaning [394 words]RenoxSep 22, 2021 16:12274920
1Very Brief Introduction to the Doctrine of الامر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر Part Two [234 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2021 07:10274920
Our dear Lenox earned his صلى الله عليه وسلم and remember this is about Arabic NOT ENGLISH or Urdu for this matter [463 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2021 13:03274920
Our dear Lenox and what is تفسير and what is ترجمة? And speaking of "word salad"! [230 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2021 14:00274920
Teaching basic Arabic to our dear Renox who needs to stick to Urdu and English [303 words]dhimmi no moreSep 23, 2021 15:24274920
Our dear Renox صلى الله عليه وسلم and علي آلِ and other sordid matters [210 words]dhimmi no moreSep 24, 2021 07:34274920
Our dear Renox صلى الله عليه وسلم and الترجمة and التفسير/التأويل and آلِ is علي! [238 words]dhimmi no moreSep 24, 2021 10:22274920
1Again: Clarification of Arabic Roots to Non-Arabic Translations [63 words]M ToveySep 24, 2021 13:56274920
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Reynald de ChatillonSep 21, 2021 01:53274916
You Are Wrong to Say "Never" [1518 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David RyanSep 20, 2021 12:00274888
To Say Never Contradicts the Reality - If It Could Happen, It Likely Will [157 words]M ToveySep 20, 2021 17:29274888
Post Script-in Retrospect, Afghanistan Was Inevitable - Only None in Power Learned Why [263 words]M ToveySep 21, 2021 15:42274888
2Brilliant acccurate analysis [157 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
NicholasSep 19, 2021 18:48274845
3Strategic Space [146 words]leonard a okenSep 19, 2021 18:24274843
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