To Canadian - I applaud your willingness to apply a more objective viewpoint

Submitted by Wrench in the engine of extremism (United States), Jan 9, 2007 at 17:44

I also represent the minority here of moderate responders, Chris.
I congratulate you for trying at least to view the topic from a more pragmatic and unemotional standpoint.

What the hatemongers in this blog do not want to appreciate, is the fact that we can not just put all of ISLAM into one cliche drawer and consider them grosso mode as threat to the western civ.

I see ISLAM s grouped in 3 main categories, (I will not touch on the shades of ISLAM), each of which a pro-active constructive integral macro strategy could address.

I. Moderate ISLAM : Muslims, of the western world, second, third generation immigrants

II. Muslims living in Muslim ( Arabic, PacRim) countries

III. Radical, Militant, Fundamentalist ISLAM - global and networked with above

I Moderate Islam

As opposed to most contributors to this blog, I advocate a more segmented approach to ISLAM.
As you, Chris, I was not much appreciated for that by our radical anti-islamic front.

Evidence:
Millions of them live with us for generations now and we have yet to hear of suicide bombings in any City of the USA for example. It is something, any even harsh regime could never defend against, let alone a civilized country with all our precious freedom and liberties. Even Israel ( which is in an outright state of war at present) with all the expertise and efficiency to clamp down on terrorists experiences still dozens of suicide bombings every year. How could we possibly defend ourselves, if our Muslim Minorites would do so to the same extent? Domestic militancy and radicalism do to my opinion not exceed other homegrown criminality or terrorism at present at least. All major attacks so far were mainly imported and organized from abroad.

The "Threat" I can see from this category comes from its population growth, whereas our population shrinks. Something which has a lot to do with our so often denied decadence.
Since however ISLAM seems to be mu ch more all encompassing to its believers, I'd feel a bit uncomfortable, if Muslims would become majorities determining and dominating our legislature. First test in approx. 15 years: The Netherlands. Strong designed in family ties ( like our Asian or Hispanic Population) would facilitate potential penetration of radical ideas and dogmas from the original countries into this local segment.

Opportunity/Challenge/Strategy
Vilifying, oppressing, attacking this segment would not only be not justified, it would create breeding grounds and open up millions of recruits for radical ISLAM. The religion should be treated equal like any other church, strictly separated from state and monitored for what it preaches. Our Freedom of Speech may have to be revised to the fact, that no Church, Mosque or Temple is to be allowed to preach fanatism, expansion and/or militancy.
Enforcement of this policy should include strict and decisive measures up to expatriation, even removal of citizenship for naturalized Citizens of any cult, movement, religion or breed. For others incarceration ( See germany and the Neo-Nazis, where the movement has become irrelevant.)

Giving Moderate ISLAM the means to influence, teach and educate its followers in the back countries would be another possible approach. Media, TV, Internet etc. Giving moderate muslim leaders public exposure would also educate our own paranoid populus. How about a practicing muslim as secretary of state or another important public office. Visibility. leading by example is the key.

In parallel we would need to stimulate our own people again to build families and have chidren. That could be done via economical measures. Further, a strong visonary leadership builds trust, optimism and hope for a brighter future. The people need to be motivated again to partake actively in the political process. Voting could be made mandatory. The porking and corruption in most western capitals must be stopped, so people can trust their leaders again. People who promote "character counts". must get exposure, so core moral and ethical values become once again part of the rater decadent western life, as we see it currently.

Lastly immigrants of any origin must assimilate. We should no longer allow for catering to minorities and the building of veritable ghettos in our big cities.A racial powder keg waiting to explode in most major cities already. A great example for success of such a MO is Switzerland with a higher per capita immigration rate than for instance California. Immigrants get all the help to learn the language and culture, but after a rather short period will no longer enjoy any special treatment whatsoever. There are no Chinatowns, little italy or Saigon. Children are after a transfer period schooled in one of the main languages. Bosnian, Italian, Turkish, Sri lankian and German kids learn the same stuff in the same language by the same teacher. Full assimilation. The religion they practice at home or church, mosque or temple is their own business. Outside the privacy of their homes - it is the SWISS law and culture they have to accept and live by. And - believe it or not - it actually works Switzerland has one of the most heterogenuous multi-cultural populations in the world for centuries now, yet has proven to be the single most stable democracy worldwide. Proof in point: it can be done.

Switzerland as opposed to the US further keeps track of all inhabitants. I f you move from one town to another you are mandated by law to de-register in the town you live and register with the Town you move to. At any given time they know who lives where and no citizen considers this as an intrusion into their private lives. That's easily done via a federally managed, integrated computer network ( Social security, Tax, DMV etc.) Here in the USA people can literally disappear, as any (interstate) movement or migration is not computerized or monitored,every agency maintains its own state ands not federally managed system, hence pretty much most statistics (importan tool for governing a country after all) are flawed being extrapolations, heck guesswork at times. Wouldn't it be helpful in times like these to actually know who lives where?

II Threat posed by traditional Islamic Countries
The percentage of militancy , funamentalsim within this category is for many reasons much higher.
Some of these countries are third world economies with outright medieval structures. Quality of life is subpar, unemployment, poverty and always in such cases correlated orthodox religious indoctrination.
Most of these countries totalitarian in kind, some administrations even ruled by Islamic Fundamentalism (IRAN). A highly unstable region which can destabilize global economics due to our dependency on their oil reserves. So of ten forgotten, it is The Western World which is sadly responsible for its greatest dilemma - the Palestine conflict. Generations of hate, several wars and holy shrines and places common to both Jews and Muslims in the same location have created an unsolvable problem and a deadly mechanism of action and reaction, revenge and retaliation. Who's land is it? how far back do we wanna go?

Challenge/Opportunity and Strategy
- Western support for the few more "moderate" countries willing to pursue reform and accept ISRAEL as given. ( e.g Jordan, Egypt, Turkey.. now perhaps IRAK) Make them via Marshall plans model states. ( will take generations)
- Europe must allocate serious budgets again to rebuild their defense forces. The US cannot do it alone.
- Decisive, even interventionary action against militant countries (Iran, but also Syria) not excluding preventive strikes of magnitude. Set precedences.
- Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and other Oligarchies must be pressured to reform towards democracy. See above.
- Support domestic Moderate Islam to excert positive influence backward to their original countries.
- Divide and conquer = massive economical support to the ( friendly) Islamic PacRim states and lift them to western levels ( takes also time)
- Beef up humint and allocate massive budget to the intelligence community for prevention of successful terrorism attacks which fuel the hatred further. We must not allow them to become martyrs and idols.
- Draconic retaliation to even passive support by any country to militant Islam.
- Follow through on such interventions ( IRAK, Somalia) to the very end, even , if that means outright occupation for some years. Strong alliances within the western world including Russia are prerequisite, which is why the UN should be abolished. It is a corrupt, expensive administration without any effect of efficiency. Its resolutions are decorative at best.
- What has been done with Western Germany after WWII should be a template for a domino strategy in the middle east. It can be done, if all civilized western powers including Russia could be unified. That requires however visionary inspiring and trust-worthy leaders, and sadly I can't really see such on the horizon.
- Palestine Conflict: The only way I see to cut through the Gordian Knot would be to take all holy places common to both religions and like embassies make them exterritorial. Its own state, like the Vatican under an equally represented Jewish and Muslim Administration under the UN. Free access for all for worship and worshipping only. Compensate Israel with some territory in Jordan, Sinai Pensinsula and let them keep the Golan Heights. Expand Israel into the Mediterranian Sea like Holland added 25% land mass via its polders. Require and enforce all Islamic countries to unconditionally accept ISRAEL as legitimate in return. Since we, the Western World created the mess, we may as well clean it up. It would due to stability of the region be in our own best economical interest.

III Threat posed by Militant/Radical ISLAM
Single biggest threat to the modern civ. Global, guerilla style, potentially will expand to soft targets and hence could destabilize global economy. Financial and communications backbone and at present an unlimited number of potential recruits. Significant potential of swapping over to domestic muslims with homegrown cells. Especially, if we continue to consider all of ISLAM as the enemy and continue to outcast them.

Challenge/Opportunity and Strategy
The US and its allies have - so rarely admitted - done an amazing job so far to prevent further attacks since 9/11. Continuation of the War on Terror by all means and on all fronts is imperative. But as with the war on crime or drugs, it is an endless conflict without the possibility of a decisve and final victory.
Sorry to disagree, Dear President Bush - this war can not be won this way.
Battles have been won, but the war is by classic means not winnable. Every dead terrorist ("martyr") generates dozens of new recruits. It is a heterogenuous, individually operating, global movement with utter disregard for (their own) human life, willing to kill many of their own people (9/11)so they can set an example. Potentially Millions of kamikazes operating under a perverted interpretation of their religion.

If we want to win this war, we must extinct these maniacs. Their supply chain must be broken, their breeding grounds must be eliminated and that means to take action where they come from. ( See strategy above), while preventing them to find new such grounds in our domestic arena ( see strategy I) Not just kill the rats, but kill the nest and offspring too. Take the war to them, migrate from a reactive defensive strategy to a pro-active, offensive approach. revise military doctrine to see Special forces as the key military tool of the future. Small, nimble, yet fully equipped mini armies, able to infiltrate and eradicate at any given time on any given place should be trained in much much larger numbers by traditional specialists such as Germany, Russia, UK, France, USA to name the best and be put under an allied command structure. ( hard to see that happen though)

Further integration of the various intelligence networks would be imperative. That again would require trust and strong alliances. A feasible compromise could be to establish some sort of bridge Interpol Computer network where solely terrorist related intelligence could be pooled from the still much too fractured intelligence community of the western world. Cooperation and networking between after all very powerful intelligence agencies (eg NSA, FBI, ex KGB, CIA, MI6, DST, Mossad and the likes) could be much tighter and efficient. It would be extremely hard for any terrorist organization to work around a combined force of the above.

Lastly, countries like IRAN, with an entire leadership consisting of religious fanatics must be decisively stopped, before a whole country commits suicide and throws an entire region into chaos with fundamental consequences on the entire world (oil) - For the ones who like to compare IRAN to North Korea, it shall be said that, as totalitarian and paranoid NK may be, their regime is still based upon self-preservation. Suicide is not part of their dogma whereas Iran, I fear, will not hesitate to use the Nuke against Israel, as soon as they have one. Their regimemay well entertain suicide as a nation, if that means that Israel is wiped off the globe. Their public doctrine does not lead me to believe otherwise, as they still adamantly deny Israel's right to exist.

In conclusion, the hard hand in a soft glove, a segmented strategy and approach to ISLAM must be found.
The extremist stream here to see, treat and denounce all of ISLAM as the enemy , will precisely create the monster they so fear. The unfeathered, paranoid hatred, targeted at an entire culture without any distinction , is hence by definition contra-productive.

To the ones who fear our own Muslims, I say: Stop reading the Quran and quoting one violent phrase after another from this ancient scripture and start looking at the actual people - Muslims in your own neigborhood. The ones I know are as boringly normal as I am. They just pray more often.

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