To Noah - A still too one-dimensional viewpoint for my taste

Submitted by Michel C. Zala (United States), Jan 10, 2007 at 22:00

Noah, as incredible that may read, we do not differ in opinion all that much. You are once again making many good points and I do respect those. This time I will try to respond to specific quotes in your response, in order to evidence the above.

I admit, when I opened the site, I really hoped to see at least one single Muslim responding to my call in an unemotional and objective manner. I am admittedly - you stated it in your response as well, that they never stand up publicly - rather disappointed. Albeit, I decided to give it a few more days, before I delete the site from my favorites, as all the negatives of ISLAM have been laid out in extremis, which actually may be one cause for the simple assumption that (moderate, average ) Muslims have turned away from this site in resignation. As you can see, I go way out on a limb to giving them all credit of doubt :)

In essence, what I try do here, is to steer away from solely pointing out the dangers, negatives, obstacles, but try to offer basic ideas or opinions to approach the issue constructively and pro-actively on all levels of a multi-dimensional challenge.

This website features a mountain of evidence, historical facts, references and statements as to why ISLAM is dangerous and must be despised. (From the western point of view). As a business executive (leader in that sense) I train and motivate my teams to never come to me with a list of problems alone, but to come prepared with potential (feasible) solutions to them.. I do not see obstacles, but try to see challenges with opportunities to grow, learn and improve.

I may offer a tragic bit of evidence for this here - the USA as a military superpower, as we know it today and I very much admire, exists in part because of the Monster "Hitler". The defense industrial complex is literally founded upon "overcoming" this terrible threat. In the end, it made us much stronger, unified, carrying a vision of freedom. Most of the "melting pot" stood like one man behind the vision of freedom and liberty.

Here I have almost exclusively, and highly emotionally heard about the "problems".
I think there is sufficient awareness about those by now.( At least amongst the readers of this Blog.)

You certainly agree, reading the various contributions, that (compelling) facts and evidence is being presented as to why Islam is to be condemned as religion. What I personally am missing are ideas. A catalogue of measures applicable in the 21^st Century to address the various concerns.

>>>They lay low, as sleeper cells, waiting. If they started doing suicide bombings, they know we'd turn on them in a heartbeat>>>

You said yourself, : , millions of them are already living here, that they are religious fanatics with utter disregard for their own life. ISRAEL as example does already turn on them and so with a vengeance, experience and expertise. BUT - the suicide bombings happen there almost every week nevertheless. They hate us according to you all, they call us the devil, infidels who must be dominated, eradicated.

So I ask again - why do we not see suicide bombings on the same scale as for instance in ISRAEL? They have the means, the numbers, the opportunity and according to you, the motive. Are we not much more vulnerable than for instance Israel? Do we see police checkpoints on every street corner or army or national guard protecting soft targets? What is it, I do not see here? America does not intern minorities in camps, has no state of war, has porous borders and I could go on and on, why it would be so much easier to commit terrorist acts here than for instance ISRAEL, where a well oiled machine is "turning on them" every single day.

I own a police issue sniper rifle which I fully legally purchased over the counter with a 10 days waiting period, being a green Card holder at present. I went to certain places in LA, I'd be able to get hand guns on the black market easily. Where is the large scale Islamic terrorism? 10k people per year are being killed in the US. How many of those are victims of Islamic terrorism? Maybe some but not even close to the extent of what we see in Israel, or the standard criminal here in the US.

>>>>Again, it's called "strategy". They're working to slowly infiltrate and subvert our will at home while attacking us abroad.>>>>

Who is THEY? If I understand you correctly, then you bunch together all three categories I try to segment the Muslim world (a, Muslims within the Western world – I call it Moderate Islam for lack of a better nomenclature, b, Muslims living in Muslim Countries, c Radical, Militant Islam, globally

According to your own logic, enough of them are here already, perfectly hidden amongst us all, integrated and networked. I ask again- What are they waiting for?

Let us for entertain for the sake of the argument, that "They" are A L L fanatic, militant, fundamentalist. Let's take Al Khaeda and take a look at the goals such a movement will try to achieve:

Destabilization of the Western world, its economy and structures, anarchy and chaos via mass panic and terror. Unification of all the Muslim world towards total domination. Right?

Well, if ISLAM could be seen as one integrated movement containing all three categories, they'd be ready now, as we speak, to commence large scale terrorist activities and thus destabilize the western world.

As outlined in another submission, a soft target/low tech/low logistics/complexity strategy (a la beltway sniper – but with the support of their media ( Al Jazeera and the likes) and conducted by a few hundred such fanatics) would literally paralyze the country and achieve exactly their main objective of utter terror and subsequent destabilization.

So I ask again – why haven't they found these few hundred recruits out of the huge pool of domestic Muslim immigrants yet and still try to infiltrate radicals from abroad?

>>>>There's no question that Oklahoma City had an islamic connection>>
Allow me to consider that as a rather daring statement, reminding me of the many conspiracy theories such as Roswell. According to the mainstream media, this attack was conducted by two single operating deranged supremacists who most likely fanatically hated any colored minority, including Muslims.

>>So where are all these so-called "peace loving" Muslims? Where are they hiding? Why are they hiding? >>>I admit, the majority of peaceful moderate Muslims, as I believe exists, is regrettably amazingly silent. I do not see the same kind of open debates and critique as within the Judeo/Christian society about their own religion and interpretations. One possible explanation for that may be, that our domestic Muslims are first, second generation immigrants, coming from countries up to this day ruled by some form of totalitarian regime, where the freedom of speech is inexistent. Behavioral patterns created by centuries of oppression do not vanish overnight, just because one lives in a free country. To not draw attention, live quietly in anonymity is a form of conditioning which takes several generations in a free country to overcome. ( Just one possible explanation)

>>>>>...they plastered posters of the scumbag everywhere, across all their storefronts and homes, praising the terror leader. They hated their kids hanging out with non-Muslims, they routinely insulted Americans (whom they felt were inferior to them), and I actually saw first-hand the brainwashing process they put their kids through.>>>>.....

Evidently your personal experiences were negative. May I ask in what City you live?
Here, another possible approach:
We should here in the USA revise our so-called Freedom of speech . I mentioned Germany as an example where that has been done fairly successfully with the Neo- Nazi movement. The right of free speech has anyhow been perverted to the right of free slandering, insulting and mudslinging. I do not believe that it was or is the proper interpretation of our constitution or according to the intent of its original writers.

Any kind of public display of inflammatory fanatism ( e.g your posters in the storefront) must and could be outlawed. Preachers of all breeds and religions trying to propagate (violent, militant) fanatism should be expatriated, even, if they are naturalized. As (again mentioned in another submission) in Switzerland, the focus must be on enforced assimilation, as far as domestic immigrants are concerned. The school where Islamic kids work side by side with the rest or our melting pot, can so become the balancing force to any potential indoctrination at home. Prevent and eliminate these ghettos, where minorities live like in enclaves of their home countries and English becomes a foreign language. These are racial powder kegs anyway, as our own riots right here in LA have proven. If you want to live in America, then you have to be American first, Christian, Muslim or Hispanic, Asian or white Caucasian later.

Switzerland with its century old stability is a perfect example for such a multi-cultural, yet perfectly functioning and balanced society. But - as opposed to America, they enforce assimilation with corresponding legislature. Have they ever been called totalitarian or oppressive? Have they seen large scale racial riots? No to both questions. (Side remark: The Swiss Constitution and System is very similar to the US. The legal envelope is however more detailed and refined. it could well be a template for a much needed overall reform of our legislature).

I was there. A bunch of these little cretins were standing around holding posters and signs of their favorite terrorist leaders...Bin Laden, Arafat, etc...

Now you talk about the Muslims in their original countries. That's to my opinion a whole different story indeed and I have seen the same I regret.
No question, I concede, is a fundamental anti-Americanism and fanatism against any "infidels" prevalent. Generation after generation of radical indoctrination, poverty and lack of any liberty have resulted in a breeding ground for religious fanatism with the Palestine conflict as its continuously burning ember feeding the fire. Am I condoning this at times appalling behavior? Sharia as law? Beheading of hostages? Hell, no. Here again I have outlined a potential macro-strategy up to and not limited to military means in order to counteract that. I even offered some radical ideas to resolve the Palestine conflict.

What, if we behave nicely towards them, they're going to stop hating us?
I am not arguing for appeasement or weakness, Noah. I do not believe in " the other cheek". All I argue for is to utilize a segmented approach/strategy towards the various dimensions of ISLAM as a culture.
In a nutshell, I promote enveloping all moderate Muslims while fighting militants with every tool of our arsenal.

Why is it always we who have to do the helping? Have they never heard the saying "God helps those who help themselves

Because it is not only the mumbo jumbo right thing to do, the ethical responsibility of the strong to help the weak, but purely pragmatic thinking in our very own best interest. Passiveness in the current situation would be suicidal for the Western World. Divide and conquer comes to mind, if one wants to apply a mindset of a military strategist.

No, WE don't need to do anything. THEY need to reform their religion and convert to non-violence and assimilate American culture.

Assuming that all the voices in this website intend to help preserve our progress, democracy and liberty, I would offer that we do need to be pro-active and do something, if we want to survive. Just standing passively by and demanding them to reform, ain't gonna cut it, Noah. We must use the key weapon of militant ISLAM against them: Propaganda, Marketing, PR. Support moderate and respected voices within their own culture. Assist those to reform from within. Just watching passively, hating, slandering them grosso modo is not a strategy with any chance of success.

No offense, but you're starting to sound like one of their apologists. The monster exists. It is called Islam. It is a violent, death-worshipping mass psychosis. And it hates us

Non taken – the Monster, as I really see it, is not ISLAM, but a subcategory, I call militant, fundamentalist, radical, terrorist ISLAM, openly and actively supported by all Muslims, including our own.
Suicide bombings on an Israel level right here in the USA. A majority of American Muslims willing to apply violence. Soft target terrorism throughout the Western World paralyzing and in the end destroying our way of life.

Oh, just overlook their violent history, right?
No – not more or less than our own. But – brutally macchiavellistic thinking, I am indeed in light of our self-preservation more interested in the present than in the past. Preventing and counter-acting present and future violence seems to me more important, than endlessly pointing at their violent past.

No, but I think you're making far too many excuses for them.
There is a fundamental difference between condoning or excusing and explaining or looking for the root cause.I solely try to find possible explanations, so perhaps solutions/strategies can be deducted in order to secure the quality of living we all enjoy for generations to come.

The bottom line is that there can be no appeasement of, no apologies for, no submission to, and no mercy shown towards Islam.

I promote no such thing and agree with every one of the statements you make in this paragraph. Animals must be treated like animals. BUT..

As opposed to most angry responders here however, I do not consider ALL Muslims as fanatic, militant or terrorists.

For over a year have I worked up in San Francisco with a Muslim owned company. Predominantly Muslim co-workers. During this year I have not heard one single snide or even ironic joke or remark against Israel, America or me with Jewish background after all. Not one single racist joke. I can not say the same for any other company I have worked for.

Until thousands of domestic Muslims march the streets of America chanting anti –American slogans, as they would be entitled to by our Right of free speech, I am not ready to accept the notion that these aforementioned people represent a minority within our domestic Muslim community.

I am sorry if this does not find much appeal within the community of this Blog.

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