Noah, Duh. I don't know what I am talking about.

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Jan 29, 2007 at 03:53

Noah, the italics are your comments. I hope your browser/danielpipes does not mix them up as I have noticed happens to many of my posts. They come out all messy.

"Show me where this mythical mass of moderate Muslims is reforming Islam? ..."

Here is a site called Memri. You will see some interesting articles there from the Arab media. That is the trickle that Michel is talking about. The selection is just random. The site also gives articles which will make you happy and confirm you in your belief.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=reform&ID=SP25701

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=reform&ID=SP28201

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=reform&ID=SP30701

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=subjects&Area=reform&ID=SP33102

"...The Western world is paralyzed with fear and bends over backwards to avoid "offending" those savages..."

Wrong. Look what happened to Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan. I did not see any fear there.

"...Do yoyu mind backing your claim? If all Muslims are deported back to the middle east, and all aid is cut off from them, what can they do to us? They don't have nukes. They don't have a military worth spitting at. They are inferior militarily, economically, morally, and in every other way imaginable. What could they do to us from Arabia when they're penned in?..."

After 9/11 Francis Fukuyama's End of History became the Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilisations. As you yourself said in a post you know how to bring America to a grinding halt with just a few people, you should know better. You don't need nukes to do that. And Pakistan has quite a few. Bin Laden is penned in a cave and he still terrorises the world. The only choice you have is to wipe out a large portion of humanity. You seem to be willing to do that. I believe it is not necessary and better results can be achieved by the other weapons at one's disposal. The pen, for instance. You seem to believe in it to some extent otherwise you would not be about the most enthusiastic blogger here.

"...So they will turn one one another. Hamas and th PLO will go to war (as if they aren't already), Shia will fight Sunni, and the entire Muslim world will be so concerned with fighting one another and simply surviving that they will not have time to even think about attcking us..."

Noah, I thought you knew your history. They have been fighting for 1400 years in their own backyards and there are still 1.2 billion of them or 2 billion if their claim is to be believed and growing.

"Yes, it was deliberate. They are mounting a migratory attack, only too many in the West are too stupid to see that."

Now you have the unpleasant task of eliminating the stupid Westerners too!

"Totally irrelevant to the subject and nothing more than an attempt at deflection. Stick to the topic"

Very relevant. You brought in the topic un-Americanism (shades of MaCarthy?). If you can invade America and reform (obliterate) the Red Indians why should the Muslims not believe that they can launch a migratory attack and reform (convert) the presents owners of that land mass.

"No, the drift of my argument is that the only good Muslim is a reformed, peaceful Muslim. If that's not possible, then the only good Muslim is a Muslim confined to his cage (ie isolated in Arabia). If that in turn is not possible, then yes, the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim."

From what you have been saying it seems to be your firm belief that Muslims are neither peaceful, nor can be reformed. And confining them to Arabia is an impossible task. So the only good Muslim is a dead one.

"Well, since we don't have a time machine, we can't go back and un-do that, now can we? So the issue is moot. Get back to the actual topic and stop deflecting."

True. A moot issue. But why are you trying to undo another moot issue. The existence of Muslims in America, Europe and elsewhere. And your plan for that looks suspiciously like how you dealt with the red Indians, Maoris and aborigines. Past experience of depopulating counts but the circumstances and dynamics of the ground realities today are a bit different from two or three hundred years ago.

A thought experiment for you.What if the surviving Red Indians demand the new occupants go back to where they came from a la your demand that the Muslims go back to Arabia or wherever. The Indians were also taken over by migratory as well as armed attacks. The Jews demanded and got back their ancestral homeland, in all probablity leading to those planes slamming into your towers. Why not the Indians. You wouldn't like that would you. Nor would I, considering the damage that would result. I believe you are not responsible for your father's crimes.

Your ancestors were very un-American in the way they went about decimating populations in the Americas, Australia and New Zealand. But now you have declared yourself the free and the brave (?) and adopted the American values of freedom, and all things good and beautiful. The Bible, which you don't believe in and which your ancestors were great believers in and most probably referred to when they went about scalping, if you examine its old parts, has enough to curl your toes, like dashing out babies brains (Deuteronomy?).

Like the Muslim context trick the Christians have managed to explain all those nasty passages away by some absolutely amazing logic, which is all to the good. Now the Muslim texts claim direct descent (or is the same as the real original the Koran claims) from your ancestors' scriptures. Why can't you accept that there is a chance that Muslims of the future can also turn around and look at their ancestors beliefs with bemusement if not amusement.

You can't bring yourself to believe that. But let me recall a little incident that happened in India quite recently. A Muslim girl was raped by her father-in-law. The ulema went into a huddle and consulted each other and their scriptures and came up witha a ruling that had all of India rocking. The girl was now the lawfully wedded wife of the rapist! Muslims in India were aghast. Religion can befuddle you but stuff like that become wake-up calls for even the most befuddled. Fundamentalism carried to the extreme is self-defeating. That is what is happening in the Muslim world. Unless stupidity is a disease peculiar to only those who were, are or become Muslim.

"I'm not Christian, so I can't say that God gave me anything"

If your ancestors were white, they believed they had that right. And now you are sitting pretty there. I hope you don't believe in ghosts either. You would be haunted by the thought of all those injuns who were sent to their happy hunting grounds prematurely.

"Be that as it may, the idea is that America is blessed by God, and that all peace loving, freedom loving people are welcome. America believes that it should be a shining exampe of what true freedom can accomplish, and no matter how much one might hate America, it cannot be denied that America has contributed more to the world and more to man's advancement than any other country. Our system has been proven superior to all other systems since the dawn of mankind."

I don't believe in any God or ghosts. At the charge of belabouring the point let me point out the blessing of God led to the wiping out of a whole race. I will grant you that today America is a shining example and has contributed a lot to the world. But I hope that advancement does not lead to the heat death of us all. In which case you wont't have to worry about the Muslims taking over. But again that to you is a moot issue because it lies in the future. And the Muslims don't just believe they are blessed by god but are his chosen people.

"As many as it takes. If that means wiping all of them out, fine. As far as I care, we can nuke Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Kuwait, give one each to the USA, China, and Russia, and that will prevent any conflict between the Big Three over it."

May be you know better than most of us about MOAB, neutron bombs and other clean killing equipment. When Chernobyl let out a bit of gas we had Europe running for cover, and not from the smell. Converting those land masses into masses of glass would I expect make the rest of the earth also unlivable. Hating someone enough to become suicidal I cannot understand.

The psychobabbler in me wants to speak up. You may tune out if you wish. Us wishy-washy left liberal types break out in a cold sweat when there is talk of blood and gore. But having said that we also recognise that for us to retain our dovish attitudes there must be some hawks hovering far above to protect us. We are beholden to them in the free world. But we also like to keep a tight reign on them to ensure they feed only on birds selected by us doves and normally we allow them to devour only birds and rodents that attack us physically. Keeping the hawks natural instinct for slash and burn in check is what keeps the free world free.

Now for a bit of mathbabble. Mathematical simulations have found that pure dove populations and pure hawk populations are not stable. Each will be invaded by the other. Also interestingly hawks do poorly when in high frequency. For more on that Google 'Hawk dove game theory'.

Thank you Noah, Susan we need you. And we thank the natural law that keeps your kind in tolerable numbers. The same should hold in the Muslim world too. At the moment their hawk population is on the ascendecy helped along by the hawks in the free world. So eventually it may not be voices of reason that prevail, I grant you, but the logic of mathematics.

End of babbling for now.

"If you cannot see the threat Islam poses, then you are clearly too stupid to engage in conversation on the matter with me..."

Duh. Stupid old me signing off for now. Have to. My saliva is dribbling all over my keyboard.

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