Face to face

Submitted by Mo (United Kingdom), Jan 31, 2007 at 01:44

I must admit, it is hard to debate or argue online, purely because of the lack of time I have these days, for one post I receive too many responses (for which I do not regret), but responding to them can become difficult. I try and respond to those that may have benefit to the discussion. I read your posts and that of many others on this site and realise something that has come to my sorrow, that is, meeting people like yourself face to face and debate openly.

I hope it is the case where you and other like yourself do go out to knowledgeable Muslims who are willing to debate or even perhaps clarify points that you raise. It is easy to scare off Muslims online; people may find it difficult of answer tough questions that you have relating to a faith as they themselves may have little or limited knowledge about. I admit that I have limited knowledge myself, but it does not elude me from learning new and interesting ideas that you have shown me.

But we mustn't consider ourselves valiant from a discussion where the other party had failed to answer or satisfy ourselves in an intellectual and reasonable level. If there is a lack of insight coming from the other side, we should take it further and acquire ourselves with the truth, even if it means taking it to qualified people who can answer conceptions. I applaud and thank you for giving me this opportunity of learning these new ideas.

Now coming more to the rebuttal; it is our belief that the Quran is for the guidance for the whole of mankind, where it addresses mankind and human beings it does so. With the terms "Yaa Ayyu Hannas" and "Yaa Ayyul Hallazeena Aamanu" meaning "Oh Mankind (or ‘men' in your case, leaving aside whether that translate to Arabs or not) and "Oh you who believe." respectively. Rulings and legislations have been enforced on all inhabitants during the time of the Prophet (p), which included non-Arabs as well. Although we find the Quran making references to the Arabic language and the people of that language, it does not mean per se that the entire revelation and book in therefore aimed at them. If the intension was so, we would find more citations to this idea.

There were delegations sent to neighbouring countries for the propagation of this religion during the time of the Prophet (p), China for example; there still exist a special mosque built for this occasion by the ruling Tang dynasty to mark this new faith's establishment. There are many verses in the Quran which makes references as to the recipient of this revelation to be. Allah (s) is described in the Quran as to be the Ultimate being, the Creator all that in the earth and beyond.

Verses that describe the creation of the first man and women are plentiful in the Quran. How other nations and tribes from across the world were destroyed due to the mischievousness of the people. Muhammad (p) was given the task to convince, most notably the Arabs into this faith, they were Arabs and spoke Arabic.

The concept and traditions that was brought forth to them was not an Arabic idea in the least. It can be argued that there was very little shown that had any Arabic citations in its content other than the language it was revealed in. The Prophets such as Jesus (p) who spoke Aramaic and possibly Greek were told, Moses speaking a language that wasn't Arabic and the rest; stories were told of non-Arabic derivations that these people could give little in relation to. Nevertheless, this was the case, as the Israelites were sent messengers after messengers, prophets after prophets to whom they persisted against; it was the final decision of God to send a messenger to from amongst the Arabs to not only guide their own people, but of all races.

You wrote…

"Here Allah is being rational and logical when he sends an Arabic Koran to an Arab Prophet. Since Allah is a logical and reasonable being he has realised that for people to believe and understand the details it has to be delivered in their native language. And read the emphasis on details. Allah understands that the details of his message can be understood only in the language it is delivered in."

That is well and good, but it is also rational and logical that those people who do not understand Arabic can learn Arabic for their understanding. It is also rational and logical that those who wish not to learn Arabic can understand from those who do possess the language. The Quran is the highest Arabic literature in the Arabic language, so much so that linguistics seeks grammatical derivations from the Quran. An so as the Quran is complex yet easy at the same time, the average Arab cannot always benefit fully without taking on Fus'ha (classical) Arabic language studies. Anyone who wants to understand fully the Quran must know classical Arabic, as the Quran is in that form (much like Shakespeare is for the average Englishmen).

So when you say that the Arabs can only understand the Quran, that in itself is a false statement, because the Quran is accessible to those who know the Language, and if a non-Arab by race is fluent in Arabic, surely the Quran is easily comprehended. I think everyone is in the same boat when it comes to understanding the Quran; all Muslims must come to know their religion, and if it means that one must learn Arabic, then it must be tough to them. It is like the language of trade during the Romans and Greek era, to trade internationally one had to master the language to become successful in trade.

"Non-Arabs who practice Islam are forever condemned to never properly understand the religion they practice except in its rituals. And that is the reality. Most do not know what it is they are saying while praying. Most do not know the meaning or significance of what it is they recite. They could, for instance, unknowingly be reciting the verse about chopping off people's hands, or Zainab's marriage to the prophet, which are totally inane when conversing with Allah."

I think you have made things too rigid for yourself, we Muslims are taught meanings to verses from our childhood; the 30^th section of the Quran which consists of over 20 chapters is something most people in the Muslims take from granted. Though the above statement of yours is true to a certain extent that is only up to the individual, is they wish understand all. That is why there are institutions across the world to facilitate this need for understanding. The world isn't so careless, especially when it comes to that which is most dear to them. I can understand why you make this comment, I do agree with your statement so a certain degree; for those Muslims who are not at all interested in gaining understanding, they merely do the bare minimum, as you say, rituals.

"Language, one of the most important markers of one's cultural identity, has been relegated to second class status because of Islam. And regretfully you seem happy and proud about it. Your religion makes you think that the Arabs are a cut above the rest because Allah has chosen them above other nations and so you slavishly imitate their manners and customs even though the religion does not require you to, hoping perhaps then Allah will treat you on a par with them. Like Indians of old trying to be more English than the English."

That comment of yours in very ignorant indeed, non -Arabic languages are not relegated into a second class status in Islam, your statement has made it so in your mind, in the eyes of a few perhaps, people are not somehow in despair for not being Arabic, they are not discontent with their culture because of not being Arabic, that is very funny. There exist the same zeal and devotion in the non-Arab world about Islam as there is in the Arabic world. You mention customs, and that not being a requirement in Islam, sending peace to another when meeting is not customary for the Arabs, but it is a religious duty.

I will remind you that Muslims do not follow the Arabic customs, in fact that would truly be foolish, but we follow the Sunnah, keeping a beard is a Sunnah so we do it, eating while sitting is Sunnah so we do it. There were many customs that the Arabs of today do which the Prophet (p) never did, but you do not find the Muslims imitating them, purely because it is not of the Sunnah.

"The non-Arabs will always be left wondering whether what they are contemplating is the real stuff."

You see, your comments are too rigid, and give an impression that there is no hope. Scholars exist in both the Arab world and the Non-Arab world. If it was the case that the Arabs were somehow more versed in the religion of Islam and did not require a scholar, then maybe you had a real case.

"I thought I was showing you all this while."

No, what you have been showing were verses that give references to the Arabic language. There is no verse in the Quran that says "This religion is for the Arabs" and equivocal statement of such or the like.

"I repeat I have no Arabic but the translation I have of Yusuf Ali and Shakir of 7:158 both say people"

Here are verses from the Chapter named "NAS" or "Mankind" or "Men" however way you look at it, because even if it means "Men" I'd doubt it means "Arabs"

114.001
YUSUFALI: Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,
PICKTHAL: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of men,

114.002
YUSUFALI: The King (or Ruler) of Mankind,
PICKTHAL: The King of mankind,
SHAKIR: The King of men,

114.003
YUSUFALI: The god (or judge) of Mankind,-
PICKTHAL: The god of mankind,
SHAKIR: The god of men,

114.004
YUSUFALI: From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-
PICKTHAL: From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,
SHAKIR: From the evil of the whisperings of the slinking (Shaitan),

114.005
YUSUFALI: (The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-
PICKTHAL: Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,
SHAKIR: Who whispers into the hearts of men,

114.006
YUSUFALI: Among Jinns and among men.
PICKTHAL: Of the jinn and of mankind.
SHAKIR: From among the jinn and the men.

Here Yusuf Ali used both Men and Mankind to tranlate the word "Nas". I apologise for calling you a minor, very sorry.

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