To Hamri Al-Assad Us infidels have the right to rebuttal

Submitted by Plato (India), Feb 8, 2007 at 06:33

"I don't know where a Muslim gets off saying that the Quran is not the literal word of God. If that was to be true, then everything is a lie, because the Quran explicitly says that it is the final complete literal message."

The reason you don't see many such claims from Muslims is because they will be dead meat in double quick time.The killer going straight to heaven to enjoy the pleasures of paradise. You start off by wanting to get rid of 'undereducated ideologues'. You say 'the Koran explicitly says that it is the final complete literal message.' It does not take much education to see that what you said is a sure indication of your educational accomplishments. Circular reasoning is what you are indulging in.

The Koran declares itself to be the final complete literal message.' That has been hard-wired into your brain cells since the day you were born that is why you don't find anything hilariously silly in what you said because now if anyone asks you why you believe the Koran is the final message of Allah you will say because the Koran says so. QED (translation: what was to be proved is proved).

Since I can see that Euclidian geometry could not have been your strong point let me phrase it differently. If I make the self-declared explicit claim that the angel Michael is a regular visitor in my home and that he chats with me about the life after death and what I should do to make myself comfortable in my after life would you believe it and why. After all I made an explicit declaration that what I said did happen. If your answer is no then on what basis do you believe the explicit statements of the Koran. If you believe me when I say I am in touch with Angel Michael, then yes your Prophet was in touch with Angel Gabriel.

"Show me where it says something that is fundamentally wrong."

It is fundamentally wrong in innumerable places. We will take only a sampling of them from the 'Annotated Koran':

27:18 Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving.

27:19 And (Solomon) smiled, laughing at her speech, and said... (Ants talking to a human)

17:97 And he whom Allah guideth, he is led aright; while, as for him whom He sendeth astray, for them thou wilt find no protecting friends beside Him, and We shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf; their habitation will be hell; whenever it abateth, We increase the flame for them. (Allah sending people astray)

17:98 That is their reward because they disbelieved Our revelations (And because they were misled by Allah they suffer in hell!)

36:38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. (The sun does not rest it is alwas moving)

35:8 Is he, the evil of whose deeds is made fairseeming unto him so that he deemeth it good, (other than Satan's dupe) ? Allah verily sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will; so let not thy soul expire in sighings for them. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do! (God guides whom he will so do not bother about the misguided, then what is the Prophet's function?)

81:2 And when the stars fall (The stars cannot fall anywhere, they are in deep space.)

053.001 : I swear by the star when it goes down. (Stars don't go down, the motion of the earth makes it seem as though they set. Also Allah is swearing by his own creation. Very strange for someone who claims everything is subordinate to him)

36:40 It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law). Surah 36:40 (Unless they are in orbit around the earth this does no make sense. The moon is in orbit around the earth so this question does not arise. (The Koran thinks the moon and sun are in orbit around the earth! )

48:20 Allah promiseth you much booty that ye will capture. (Allah promising booty to Muslims who fight for Him)

40:35 Those who wrangle concerning the revelations of Allah without any warrant that hath come unto them, it is greatly hateful in the sight of Allah and in the sight of those who believe. Thus doth Allah print on every arrogant, disdainful heart. (Those who dispute the revelations are hated by Allah)

40:4 None argue concerning the revelations of Allah save those who disbelieve, so let not their turn of fortune in the land deceive thee (O Muhammad) (If you argue about the revelations then you are automatically a disbeliever)

"Show me where it contradicts itself."

003.007 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
(What is the purpose of their revelation and which ones are the allegorical ones?)

054.017 (repeated in 054.022, 032, 040) And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? ( In 003:007 Allah says "..but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah..." Then how can these verses be true?)

"It doesn't matter if all the Muslims stray from the path towards violence, which they won't, Islam cannot fail simply because it is the will of the Almighty that it succeed."

Won't they stray? Then read 9:111 where Allah makes a contract with believers to give them paradise in exchange for the money and their lives if they fight in his cause and kill or are killed. After reading this verse if I were a Muslim I will definitely take up the path of violence in the way of Allah. It is a small price to pay for the eternal pleasures of heaven. And as you say Allah wishes Islam to succeed that is why he is enticing Muslims, Mohammed Atta, the Palestinian suicide bombers come to mind, with the promise of paradise to fight and kill or be killed in his cause. After reading the verse below are you not sure that Mohammed Atta and his friends are laughing in paradise at your absurd statement?

9:111 GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph.

"There can be one real Muslim left and the religion will surive."

You expect this last Muslim to live until Judgement Day? Just a figure of speech right?

"I really don't get what qualifies any of you to make sweeping statements about Islam."

You have made pretty sweeping statements yourself. But let that be. What qualifies us is the little matter of the Koran itself making sweeping statements about us kafirs and infidels. Read '009.028 O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.'"

How would you like it if the Bible said all Muslims are unclean (spiritually not physically as someone insisted, which is worse). The Koran made a very sweeping statement. That is what gives us infidels the right to make sweeping statements right back at the Koran. The Koran has insulted us idol worshippers, atheists.

Here is the Koran cursing the Jews and Christians for their beliefs: '9:30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!' Why should they not curse right back?

And here is the Koran telling us that its author will terrorise us. 'I shall terrorise the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them, because they oppose Allah and his apostle." (Surah 8:12)

So what qualifies you to come here and defend the indefensible? Yes show these to your scholars. But don't come back with the hackenyed 'torn out of contex' speil. We have heard it here so many times that the word context is dripping out of our ears.

"It is shameful that some of you think reasonable Islam is dead."

Really. Of course not. How could we when Islam is exploding in our faces every day of the week. 'Reasonable' Islam is alive and kicking so hard that the rest of the world is trying hard to hamstring it. What is really shameful is that Muslims are kicking, screaming and killing wherever they have a toe hold.

"The only thing that is dead is the logic in this forum"

If you mean there is no logic to having this forum, I disagree. It is there to bring some logic into the dark world of religious illogic into which people like you have been plunged by the imams in your madrassas. If you mean the people in this forum are talking without any logic or reason then I have to agree. And almost all of it comes from Muslim participants. I will demonstrate it to you when you reply to this post.

IF YOU REPLY AFTER READING THESE VERSES:

40:35 Those who wrangle concerning the revelations of Allah without any warrant that hath come unto them, it is greatly hateful in the sight of Allah and in the sight of those who believe. Thus doth Allah print on every arrogant, disdainful heart. (For a change Allah is trying to terrorise you believers!)

40:4 None argue concerning the revelations of Allah save those who disbelieve, so let not their turn of fortune in the land deceive thee (O Muhammad) (If you argue about the revelations then you are automatically a disbeliever. Clever Allah, we disbelievers can argue but you cannot!)

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