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To Susan: Imperialism Italian styleReader comment on item: How the West Could Lose Submitted by Plato (India), Feb 15, 2007 at 06:14 "are libya and somalia part of italy? are those countries somehow under italian control? last time I checked they were muslim dictator infested. Is italian the language of those countries? where is the mighty italian empire you brag about?" Your friend Noah has been asking me to take reading comprehension lessons, I am struggling with those lessons but enlighten me where in my post I have said that Libya and Somalia are part of Italy. This is what I said " Something to be proud of. You were not imperialists except in god-forsaken places like Libya and Somalia? But something you could do well to forget." You were imperialists of the minor variety, something you should be proud about Let me repeat where have I said that Libya and Ethiopia ARE part of Italy. The verb I have used is WERE. By your reckoning since Britain, France etc do not have colonies worth speaking about now they cannot also be considered to have been imperialists. "What the inquisition has to do with empires? imperialism? colonialism? there's a big mess in your brain, regardless of the fact that you abuse the name of a great thinker which is plato. The inquisition was a totally italian stuff? strange because you often hear about the spanish inquisition, but of course spain in your brain was part of the mighty italian empire..." Addleheaded is the word you are looking for. Where have I mixed up inquisition with those other things. I was telling you the inquisition and fascism are things to forget. Like Plato's shadows on a cave wall of the reality outside I cannot claim to be even a shadow of the real Plato. No Spain and Italy were part of the mighty Papal empire. So sorry I forgot the Spanish auto da fa (I was concentrating on your country), it was worse than yours, no question about it. It is nice to have someone else's crime take the heat off one's own somewhat lesser crime. Reminds me of the Muslims coming up with the Crusades, Hitler, the World Wars etc. to hide their own crimes. Well done you are fast learning the Muslim tricks. Susan just for you to laugh out loud go through the links and the bits of information I have posted on Italian imperialism. Admitedly not a patch on British, Spanish, French and Portuguese but the latent European imperialist drive is quite visible. http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0861179.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Empire "exactly, learn geography, italians never conquered anything." And if you read the article below pay particular attention to the underlined words. Go ahead and sneer at it as something downloaded from the internet. It seems the Italians WERE imperialists at heart (pining for the Roman Empire?) but the English, French and others were ahead of you and got the prime cuts and you were left with the rump. http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=italian_colonial The Italian Colonial Empire By Category: Italian troops captured the Ethiopian capital of Addis Abeba in the spring of 1936, and, on May 9, 1936, Victor Emmanuel III was proclaimed Emperor of Ethiopia. This war was extremely popular in Italy, but it pointed out the weakness of the League of Nations, whose economic sanctions only irritated the Italians. It demonstrated the disarray of French and British foreign policy, and moved Italy in the direction of Nazi Germany, who supported Italy throughout the conflict. On the 4th of July, the League of Nations dropped the sanctions towards Italy. The last Italian acquisition was Albania, a former Italian protectorate, which was annexed with a pretext in 1939. At its peak, just before WWII, the Italian Empire comprehended the territories of present time Italy, Albania, Rhodes, Dodecaneses, Libya, Ethiopia, Eritrea, 2/3 of Somalia and the little concession of Tientsin in China, (obtained in 1902 after its participation in the international expedition against Boxers). This was only brought to an end by the intervention of the allied armies, the formation of the partisans, the abdication of the king and the end of Mussolini (28 April-2 May 1945). According to the treaty of Paris (1947), Italy had to accept losing all of its colonies, and just remained "protector" of Somalia until 1960. Italian Colonial Empire is the name given, in 1936, to the set of territories owned by Italy between 1882 and 1947. Origin of Italian colonialism can be found in the desire to take part in the great partition of African lands by European powers, and also in the real need to find a way to channel the surplus of population that was actually emigrating into Tunisia, France and the Americas. Italy began to form a colonial empire in 1869 by buying land in the Bay of Assab on the Red Sea from the local sultan. It occupied the whole of Eritrea, which was made a colony in 1889, but its attempt to seize Ethiopia was defeated at Adowa in 1896. This led to the downfall of the government of Francesco Crispi and remained an embarrassment for nationalists, who had expected a united Italy to gain glory abroad. Italy recognized the independence of Ethiopia, but still retained much influence there because of her colonies in neighboring Eritrea and Italian Somaliland. This latter had been annexed or purchased piece by piece with a series of pacific treaties with local sultans and , in part, ceded by Great Britain as a compensation for Italy that did not receive any of the German colonies parted after WWI. Italy acquired Tripolitania and Cyrenaica (these two regions together forms modern Libya) in the war with Turkey in 1911-12, as well as Rhodes and the islands of Dodecaneses (at present, part of Greece) . Italy entered WWI on the allied side in May of 1915. After the war, it was overshadowed by the greater powers, although it gained territory including Trieste, the Trentino and the south Tirol (Alto Adige). The intense postwar political and industrial unrest led to the establishment of Benito Mussolini's fascist dictatorship in 1922. Under Mussolini, Italy began to again pressure Ethiopia. The border clash at Wal-Wal in December of 1934 brought the struggle for influence there to world attention. Attempts through the League of Nations and through the mediation of Britain and France failed to achieve a diplomatic solution, in large part because Mussolini did not want one. Believing that he had the consent of both Britain and France for the conquest of Ethiopia, Mussolini had prepared throughout the summer of 1935 for invasion. The Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie I (1892-1975) spoke at the Nations Society (past incarnation of present day UNO) and obtained sanctions against Italy; nevertheless Mussolini decided to proceed with the invasion. "I pray too for the extincion of kumbayas, who are useless" Such a lovely sentiment. Not totally unexpected. "The situation of the native Americans is not useless. It is something with which I can needle your conscience. But I get the feeling instead of needling it open, your conscience is closing in on itself." Is what I said and your comment: "your 3rd world school must be pretty poor, you have difficult time in understanding my very basic english. I never said "the situation of the native Americans is useless", I said, you talking about it is useless, as well as anything else brought up by you." My sentence construction capabilities also require updating. I had hoped you would read it with the next sentence (I should have used a comma instead of a period) which says that the native Americans' situation is useful for me to needle you with, I never accused you of saying the native Americans' situation is useless. "that happens only when I come across posts that are stupid, in denial, obsessed like yours." I just had to try, I won't dare tell you in future about improving your vocabulary. I guess since they appear in all your posts you are in love with the words stupid, denial and obsession. Oh Lord Kumbaya Can you see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. Oh Lord Kumbaya, I know you have infinite patience, but you know how it is with these blogs, having the last laugh and all that, in my case I am ready to climb up the wall. Susan, I realise you are a patriotic Italian and you have done a nice white-wash job on its history and fascism. You have improved my education by showing that Italy was not the home of fascism. You can improve it further by showing me the nicer side of Mussolini. Also since Hitler's party was originally founded by Drexler, national socialism is not his creation. Fascism - definition http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Fascism_def_char_hx.html A totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life. The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini , who ruled Italy from 1922 until the Italian defeat in World War II. However, it has also been applied to similar ideologies in other countries, e.g., to National Socialism in Germany and to the regime of Francisco Franco in Spain. (go on, trash it as stupid stuff out of the internet, you are good at trashing) Serge_L 20th Century: Political HistoryNote: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments". << Previous Comment Next Comment >> Reader comments (2112) on this item
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