To Ianus - what a brilliant reply- If there is a Muslim still out there, please comment too

Submitted by Michel (United States), Mar 6, 2007 at 17:27

For the first time, since I contribute here, I can not just sit down and immediately respond, as you have given me a ton of material to think about, Ianus.

I found myself nodding oftentimes, while reading your post, and at present can only say that I more on an instinctive level feel, that there is a lot of common ground we can work with.

For once, so much may be said for right now - your assumptions about me were on the mark.
Another first indeed, while Dhimmi and Susan still proclaim that I am a Pakistani Muslim, so I fit into their rationale.

Ironically in many ways I am - so true - some sort of politician (exec management, public speaking, mediation, moderation, conflict resolution and the likes) , even though, I am not running for any office and do not plan to do so. Hence, believe me, I am not trying to win (muslim or any other) votes.

Yes it is true - our one fundamental difference in opinion, where we derive our own individual causal chains or logic from, causes us to part ways early on - but instinctively I now feel, that it is not a 180 degrees fork in the road, but more so an angled crossing, if you entertain my poor effort to use an analogy.

I will digest your post calmly and sleep over it for one night, as it deserves the very best of quality response I am able to deliver, my IQ and ignorance in pretty much all matters of religion considered.

For now- To MM or any other Muslim who has dared to engage here - Ianus in a respectful tone made many strong remarks and posed many very good questions to which I personally would love to get a Muslim perspective.

I very much would appreciate MM for instance to comment, while I myself will try to craft a decent reply on my own.

In the meantime, Ianus, if you could comment on my response to Dhimmi with regards to various interpretations of expressions out of the Koran from within the Muslim World. I found such in abundance on the internet and in my mind find myself confirmed, as far as the homogenity of ISLAM ( or better the lack thereof) is concerned.

One question popped up immediately though:

How do you know, how Muslim Children are being raised ( especially the ones living within our society)?

Where do you base the notion upon that they are being indoctrinated from the very first stage on, whereas ours do not experience anything comparable?

Has anyone, Susan, Dhimmi, Noah or you in fact seen this first hand?

Lived door to door with Muslim neighbors whose children went to the same school with yours?

Shared an evening table with these neighbors and seen this form of indoctrination with your very own eyes?

Well, eventhough I actually spent much time with Muslims of the middle east, let alone with modern muslims here, I have not seen much evidence to that fact at all.

I know that my personal experiences may not be representative, and I know that especially in the middle east such fanaticism can be found often ( something I delivered plausible explanations for in many of my posts).

Albeit - it does flabber me a bit, how my experiences can so utterly be non-representative with a lifestyle of up to 250k airmile/per year over the last 10 years.

Not trying to be patronizing in any way, I would nevertheless dare to venture that my direct exposure to (admittedly all shades (including fundamentalist and violent) of Islam would be far more extensive than what the average Westerner may have.

Why do I see the average (Muslim) family so differently than you all? How can you depict them as "utterly and comprehensively" brainwashed, conditioned, indoctrinated from early stages on?

Across the board including in the West?

What is it , I seem to be unable to comprehend here?

Ianus - no pun, irony or joke - I am in all truthfulness confused.

Another reason why I must take time to digest your many excellent points you made and make that square peg above somehow fit into the round hole of your overall stringent logic.

Anyway - with this one post of yours and many of Plato's wonderful pieces, you guys made it worthwhile for me to hang around a bit longer. I learned, grew, was forced to stop and think - all that is fun and my synapses are firing salvos all over the place.

With these 2 last posts alone you were able to challenge me to a way higher extent, than all of the oftentimes extremely insulting posts of Noah, Dhimmi or Susan combined.

I thank you for that and most so for your respect manifested in much computer time to educate me.

I think tonight I will drink to your health with Polish Vodka in my Bloody Mary :-)

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