My final post to Michel

Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Mar 8, 2007 at 20:47

Michel, it's far past time for me to start ignoring your posts and to stop wasting time replying to you. But this recent post of yours begged for a final reply. I have many times accused you of being a clown, and this post of yours has finally sealed that verdict beyond question or doubt. Let's dissect it.

"1. Noah, Susan, Dhimmi et al will of course once again state how backwards, medieval Islam still is. Acrid sarcasm from the enlightened world about these idiots in the middle east will most likely dominate any comments."

And for once, you are correct. The very fact that women in Islam must have an intact hymen to get married brings us back to the issue of Islamic barbarity. So now they can simply afford to rape their daughters and nieces and then repair the hymen so they can marry them off. This is cattle management, nothing more.

"2. I on the other hand read the above article as evidence again for progressive ( in relation to classic Islam of course) tendencies within even the traditional Arabic world. Once again just a slither of proof for my hypothesis that even "sacred" issues are currently being debated and different conclusions are being drawn."

Once again, you base your beliefs on aberrations. You're compelled to dig out aberrations and rare occurrences and to use them to shore up your faith in a fantasy that exists only in your own mind (and in the mind of other delusional people). And you still refuse to even address the mountains of damning evidence that prove you wrong. Bottom line, you're living in denial of reality and fishing for aberrations and random, rare occurrences to reinforce your warped view of the world.

"All little pieces of evidence and much more could be listed to evidence that disparity is not a unique attribute to Islam. "

It's a ridiculous comparison at best. Women in America are equal to men in court, they have equal voting rights, they can own property, they hold positions of authority, they can walk around in bikinis, they can obtain an education, they are given help when raped (ie not considered the "villain" in the matter)...none of this is true in Islam. In fact, the reverse is almost always true.

"Does not above article once again provide at least some circumstantial evidence for my statement that different interpretations are existing, that debate within the Muslim world - heck even their religious authorities does happen? Why not give em some time to develop these grass roots efforts to reform from within?"

You choose to believe in a delusion and use circumstantial evidence to "back your claim" even as your "evidence" is clearly shown to be rare aberrations. And yet you refuse to acknowledge the literal mountain of damning evidence presented to you that proves what people like me and Susan are telling you. If we put this into an analogy of a murder trial, let's say we find a suspect. Me, Susan, Dhimmi No More, Jaladhi, Ianus and others are prosecuting the case. We show you proof that the suspect has a long history of committing violent crimes. We show you letters that the suspect has written, threatening to kill the victim. We give you indisputable lab tests showing the victim's blood and DNA was found all over the suspect's clothing, and on the murder weapon (which we found in the suspect's possession). We present records to show that in every state in which the suspect has lived, he has committed a murder. The suspect has himself told you that it was his intention to commit the murder and he has actually confessed to the crime.

Your reply? "Yes, but he was taking anger management courses, so perhaps he's not guilt after all!"

Finally, I am all for "giving them time to develop grass roots efforts". They can have all the time they need. In their own countries. Deport them all, let Allah sort them out. Let them work out their barbarity and their psychoses, and give them as long as they need. Just make them do it all in their own backyard.

"If such a debate can occur in Egypt - after all a still traditional Muslim Country – how can we possibly assume that the Muslim community within the US for example, is not way farther along a progressive, modern, tolerant road?"

The fact that they're debating being able to "repair their cattle" so to speak, does not make them more civilized. They're still treating their women like cattle. This is just surgery for cattle. I don't see why you make such a big deal about it. After all, most Muslim clerics protested against it anyway.

"As far as our debate is concerned, I at least have submitted many pieces of evidence for my stand that Islam is by far not as coherent, as you guys want to make us believe"

You have submitted a few aberrations here and there that account for less than one one-hundred-thousanth of one percent of all Muslims. That is not "evidence". That's called an aberration and a statistical anomaly. To put this into another analogy, we've presented you with a case where the DNA has a 99.999% certainty of proving that the accused is guilty, but you insist on believing in the 0.0001% chance that he's innocent. It's called "denial of reality".

"In response to my evidence, all I have seen, are again and again quotes out of the Koran to the contrary. But other than that, not much tangible proof. That seems just from a purely pragmatic point of view not good enough."

Liar. You have seen far more than that. We have given you mountains of historical evidence and historical precedence, we have given you reams of evidence based on current events, we have given you polls and analyses, logic, statistics, facts, and all sorts of other proof of our side. You're simply choosing to ignore the threat of Islam because you're not man enough to face it. It's far easier to hide your head in the sand than to stand up to the threat. By choosing to believe in a delusion, you absolve yourself of all responsibility for standing up to the threat. It's called "cowardice".

"Since you can not deliver proof for the all-encompassing, comprehensive, coherent indoctrination of >1B people towards one expansive goal of conquering the world, based upon real life situations, you remain on the dimension of a sheer theological debate, which is why we never can come to any result."

If you believe that we have the burden of proving that every single one of the 1.2 billion Muslims on the planet are actively plotting terrorist atrocities in order to prove that Islam is a threat, then you are more of an idiot that I ever thought you were. This is where your cowardice and dishonesty (not to mention delusion) shows through. You insist that in order to prove that Islam is a threat, we must prove that every single Muslim on the planet is a cold blooded killer. As I said, you're simply too cowardly to deal with reality and must remain in your comfortable cocoon of delusion because reality is simply too harsh for you to deal with.

"I repeat myself again - let's move on from these old books and see them as what they are: historical documents, but nothing more."

How obvlivious to reality you are. To Muslims, the Koran is not a "historical document, but nothign more". Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and travel to Iran or Saudi Arabia and proclaim publicly that the Koran is "merely a historical document and nothing more". Now for that spectacle, I will gladly pay money to watch a video on Skype or whatever that software is you keep rambling on about, to watch them behead you. The shocked look on your face when your mythological moderate Muslim friends behead you for "attacking Islam" would be worth paying to see. You truly are as delusional as anyone I have ever encountered.
"Have you read the post of the MM? I felt for him, as he tries to live peacefully and productively and gets nothing but insults. You shoot at the right people, but with bazookas at mice, hurting so many in the process and accepting that as collateral damage."

Michel, I know it's difficult for you to keep track, what with your Indianna Jones style, world-wide, jet-set lifestyle and all those long walks with the dogs on the beach and conducting those conflict resolution seminars all over the Third World, but at least try to keep up with current events here before making a fool of yourself by commenting. Moderate Muslim has been exposed as a...radical. As is always the case when we confront Muslims with evidence, he (like all the others who've popped in here) has done nothing but obfuscate, evade, villify, and complain. We are still waiting for him to address any of the numerous issues we have brought to his attention in response to his goofy challenges to "put up or shut up". You always pick bad examples to back you.

"Stop the finger pointing and start helping cleaning up our own messes is my advice."

Precisely what I am advocating. Clean the cancer known as Islam out of our own backyard, wait for it to go into remission and then revert back to a benign mass, and only then allow it back in.

"Come down from yor ivory thrones and get your hands dirty. learn to know the people you condemn so easily, exchange with MM, not accuse him. If you gave that an honest and fair effort, you would quickly come to the result that he is now really not a person to be deported or banned."

Michel, in all honesty let me ask you this. Do delusional people know they're delusional? Or do you actually believe all the absurdities you spew? First of all, you are the one who refuses to get his hands dirty. You want to retreat into a delusional fantasty world where everything is all right and nothing needs to be done to deal with the threat. People like me, Susan, Jaladhi, Ianus, Dhimmi No More, etc are the ones doing the hard, dirty, difficult work. You're simply cowering in the basement hoping the threat will pass you by. Do don't lecture me. You are like the cowardly conscientious objector who refuses to go to war but insists on telling the warriors how to fight the war and who believes he has the right to advise them on what they do.

We have engaged MM. He immediately accused me of spouting (and I quite) "disgusting racist BS" when I told him about how Mohammed murdered the Jews in Medina and other places, then raped the women and children and enslaved them. When I proved that what I said was not racist and not BS, I challenged him to answer whether he still thought it was "disgusting". He refused to answer. All he did was present a quote from an un-cited, anonymous Islamic "scholar" which basically said nothing more than "You have no authority to criticize The Prophet!". He refused to confront the issue. He was challenged to deal with the issue in Detroit, the issue of CAIR, and other issues. He refused to address those issues, instead whining about being on trial, praying to Allah, and villifying us as the "Legion of Doom". We see this behavior from Muslims all the time, every day. It is typical, boring, and predicatable behavior on their part.

"Again and again I am reminded of the gang rape in a NY subway and the demagogues of the Nazi regime."

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with being raped. Maybe you should seek therapy. Your constant references to Nazis simply proves you are not intelligent enough to discuss this with the rest of us. Haven't you ever heard the saying that the first person to make the "Nazi comparison" in an internet debate loses? Your comparisons are always weak and inaccurate.

"The inability of human kind to learn from history."

Face the mirror, then repeat that. We've shown you the history of Islam and what it always brings, without fail, without exception, for over 1,400 years. It is you, Michel, who wants to deny history and who refuses to learn from it, not the rest of us.

"Once again - MM - I apologize to ya and can only state that these do not represent us.
Blogs like this one have a tendency to bring out the desk jockeys and wingers of the outer limits of the bell curve."

Yes, Michel it does. People like me, Susan, Jaladhi, Ianus, Dhimmi No More, etc are indeed on the far right side of the bell curve. We are the tiny percent who are far above average in intelligence. You however, are the clown in the middle by your own admission - boringly average. You've repeatedly admitted to your own ignorance on these matters, but still you refuse to listen to all of us who have proven to have a far better education than you, and who understand the matter far more intimately than you would ever have the courage to pursue.

"Stay your course and do not respond with anger and hatred to the insults, as hard as that may be at times."

How hypocrticial coming from a coward who refuses to engage in honest debate, but instead presents nasty insults, lies, distortions, and personal attacks in each and every one of his posts.

Face reality Michel. By your own admission, you are a clown. By your own admission, you are uninformed on the issues, you do not understand a fraction of what the rest of us understand. You have admitted to being ignorant on history, the various religions and their teachings, current events, and other issues. Hence, you have no business discussing this. All you have managed to do in recent weeks is to lie and throw out absurd insults towards everyone who has tried to show you the truth.

I'm not going to waste any more time with you. You're hopeless. Live in your delusions. You are beyond hope. You're not interested in reality, you are only interested in cementing your delusions. You're not man enough or intelligent enough to engage the rest of us in reasonable, intelligent debate. All you can do is hurl insults like "moron, Nazi, fanatic" at those who know more than you, then you preach to others about how they should act with more dignity. Clown. It's the perfect word to describe you. At this point I will only respond to your vapid and meaningless posts when you post an outright lie about me or Susan or others that requires correcting. Other than that, you're simply not worth talking to.

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