"Common values"

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jul 25, 2007 at 17:41

Now another point, dear Chris :

> You answered: >>Can you give me an example , please ?
>> I respect no Islamic values and I have no vested interests like Bush and co. in promoting them.
But I have a damn respect for Western culture and I know that I will not survive long its demise and the emergence of the Islamic West.

> I can give you a ton of examples.
> 1. Family values- A stable home with traditional gender roles in which at least one parent (doesn't matter which one) is raising the child while the other works.

We have a monogamic family pattern. Polygamy is a foul institution for a number of reasons.

> 2. The belief that women can run their own businesses and can be educated (unless you're a Wahhabi).

This belief was unknown to Islam until imposed by the West.

"Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." (al Bukhari v.1, b 6, 301)

> 3. The belief in the right to self-defense against an occupying nation.

I don't know if you have noticed that but Moslems have NEVER admitted they are agressors. It is always those attacked that are to blame for the Moslems' aggressions. This remark seems to have a universal validity.

> 4. The belief in a strong community.

Dar-al-Islam is the home of worst tyrannies or what you call "strong communities". Democracy and Islam are incompatibel.

> 5. The belief in law and order.

Islamic "law and order"? Thanks a lot for this totalitarian mind control and daily oppression. I prefer freedom !!! (Symptomatically enough, FREEDOM is nowhere included in your catalogue!!! Congratulations!!! )

> 6. A belief in capital punishment for murderers (more a conservative American belief not shared with most of the West).

I am against public beheadings on Fridays after the service in the mosque.

> 7. A belief that abortion is wrong (a Christian belief as well as amongst many Jews and even some atheists)

I respect women very much and I think that they should be consulted first on that matter, not the local imam or the ilk. If I shared your view I would say that if born a mentally demaged child should be reared and looked after by the imam who ruled the abolition of abortions.

> 8. A belief that infanticide of female babies is wrong (an early feminist concept in Islam to a problem that is still a huge problem in places like India and China).

Don't try to make of Muhammad the apostle of humanitarianism. Female babies were necessary to wage a demographic war on the kafirs!

> 9. A belief in one God (shared by the Judeo-Christian religions).

Compare Arthur Schopenhauer's comment on that matter ("A dialogue on religion" )

> 10. A belief in and love for Jesus (Although difference in opinion as to whether he was God to Christians or a prophet to Muslims…and to Jews…a false Messiah except to Messianic Jews)

Sancta Sinplicitas!

http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Authors/JR/Future/ch06_the_muslim_jesus.htm

Jesus - the Faithful Muslim, the Slayer of Jews , will come to abolish Christianity, will breal crosses , kill swine and convert all Christian to Islam... This Anti-Christ is called Jesus by you ??? My congratulations again!

> 11. A belief in respecting your mother and father (unless they tell you to abandon the Islamic faith according to Islam).

I believe in the symmetry of respect. They respect me. I respect them. Moslems instead believe in beating and mistake it for respect.

> 12. A belief in mercy and compassion… even to animals.

Have you ever seen the Moslems slaughter their animals? They use a cruel way of cutting their throats while the animals die in indecribable agony and spasms. They kill often their prisoners the same way.

> 13. A belief in doing good deeds for the sake of God.

Another semantic trap. If a Moslem says "good" he doesn't necessarily mean the same things which a kafir associates with the word 'good'.

> 14. A shared belief with Christians and Jews that God is our ultimate judge to whom we are held accountable to eventually..

I don't share this view and I am sure most -or rather all- Christians and Jews don't want to be judged by Allah.

> 15. A belief in the power of prayer (as also believed by religious Christians and Jews)
Etc…etc…. I could go on and on.

Magic and animistic thinking are powerful in Islam. In Saudi Arabia and Iran they hunt witches on a regular basis.

Let's go on ...

16. A belief that women are inferior to men

(The Quran 4.34 "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them." )

17. A belief that wife-beating is OK (ibidem)

18. A belief that all kafirs will end in hell (the Christians in the sixth hell ) and the Moslems in paradise.

19. A belief that kafirs exist illegally as it is only Allah who makes all things legal. Those who deny Him lose any rights and all their property belongs to Allah's slaves.

20. A belief that Muhammad was impeccable and whoever says otherwise must be physically attacked and/or killed.

21. A belief that soon before the resurrection the Jews will hide behind the rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will say: "Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him! (al Bukhari 4, 52, 176)

22. A belief that in a conflict between a Muslim and an infidel the Moslem cannot be wrong.

23. A belief that eating pork and drinking wine and drawing human figures will make Allah angry and put the ummah in danger.

24. A belief that the Quran is written personally by Allah and that the Bible is a forgery abrogated by the sending down of the Quran.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

> Do you not respect most of those things?

You can conclude easily from my answers what I respect and what I don't.

> Keep in mind that when you say "Western Culture" that much of that culture comes from Middle-Eastern born Christian and Jewish beliefs. The Christianity that we see today in America is a far cry from its roots which you can still see probably best preserved within the Greek Orthodox faith. Things like prostrating for prayer, women covering their hair, and separation of men and women during worship, are all practices that existed long before Islam.

Historically speaking, our civilization was born in Greece with the Age of Greek Enlightenment. It was interrupted by the barbarization and in part Islamization of Europe and was reborn with the advent of humanism and rationalism and the second Enlightenment in the 17-18th century. It is where we belong. It is where the second barbarisation through Islam will bring about the violent end of our civilization.

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